What do you think of Dawkins' sentiments?

@BohemianBabe Morality is everywhere. There is no escaping it. Every day we are thinking about the moral and immoral, good and bad.

@emiliya Yeah, human evolved altruism as a survival trait. Plus it's just the pragmatic choice. We all thrive when we work together. Screwing each other over just makes life as a whole worse for everyone.
So while I don't agree with Dawkins on everything, he's correct here.

@BohemianBabe If it were not bad, why would it make it worse? Is working together moral? I think you are talking about compliance. Thinking about whether we should comply or not makes us moral beings.

@emiliya
What do you mean?

@BohemianBabe You say: “Screwing each other over just makes life as a whole worse for everyone.”

If screwing each other over is not bad, why would it produce the effect of making life worse for everyone? Why do we see bad as bad? Is it all perception or is there a greater force who has determined what is bad or was himself made by a universe that determined it for Him? Or IS He the universe? He must be the universe.

@emiliya It's bad in the sense that it affects us negatively. It's subjective, not objective, because there is no good or bad on a universal level.

@BohemianBabe We have too many thoughts and ideas for there to not be a creator. Subjective and objective do not mean anything to Him.

@emiliya Just because something seems complex, doesn't mean there's a creator. Plus there's always that question of, if humans need to have had a creator, then who created the creator?

@BohemianBabe We cannot say there is no good and bad when we spend every day of our lives sensing good and bad. Is there anything we do more than this? It does not need to be objective or subjective.

“Plus there's always that question of, if humans need to have had a creator, then who created the creator?”

I think God is the universe. Did he need a creator, or has he always been here?

@emiliya Well if your argument is that complicated beings, like humans, needed a creator, then that means the creator also needed a creator. Personally, I think whether something is complicated is also subjective, and with evolution we can have things that most people would consider complicated, but don't have a creator.

@emiliya
We spend every day of our lives individually making our own judgements about what is good and bad

@newjaninev2 We make judgements using our minds, and we are aware of them. A judgement is “the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing” and “a decision that you make, or an opinion that you have, after considering all the facts in a situation.”

Most of the time, our senses are telling us what is good and bad. You do not walk into a room and see a hurt child and spent minutes or hours deciding whether it is a good idea to help the child. The judgement comes after our instincts. It can either prove our instincts right or get in the way of them. That we are able to think, make the so-called judgments, and discuss our thoughts shows that we are moral beings who care. Conflict does not happen in a world of pitless indifference with no good and evil.

@emiliya Your senses tell you what is going on in the world around you... there's no value judgement there.

You conflate instinct and morality.

Moral behaviour tries to maintain the wellbeing of any organism that is capable of otherwise suffering.

@newjaninev2 Our instincts are moral. Morality is bigger than you think it is. The universe has determined it. It exists beyond us.

What do you mean by the last sentence? It sounds nonsensical.

@emiliya Unsupported self-serving claims have no standing.

That sentence means exactly what it says. If my cat is ill and I take it to the vet for treatment to alleviate its illness, that's moral behaviour. If I kick my cat and cause it pain on a whim, that's immoral behaviour.

@newjaninev2 “That sentence means exactly what it says. If my cat is ill and I take it to the vet for treatment to alleviate its illness, that's moral behaviour. If I kick my cat and cause it pain on a whim, that's immoral behaviour.”

Morality is everything; good and bad, right and wrong, and all things we know and understand. Morality is thinking, feeling, and doing. We are having this exchange, and that makes us moral people. If we weren't, we would spend all our days silent and staring into space. Asking questions is one of the most moral things a person can do.

Did you know that science also has an explanation for evilness? They say the brains of psychopaths are different. Some of the badness has been exacerbated or brought out by unfortunate experiences in life, but what is this supposed to mean? If your brain is already abnormal, what can be done? These scientists are not saying “we all have different ideas of right and wrong”, or “morality doesn't exist”; they are saying there is a reason this person deviates from the rest. Where is the subjectivity there?God will say it is the devil, but he is also a natural creator who created all things natural. The devil told Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and they did. The consequence is that we have all come to know evil. It is part of God's plan, as He knows we must be able to choose between good and evil. We have to know the devil.

@emiliya The concept of good and evil is not black and white, human experiences and moral decisions are shaped by complex factors. Culture, experiences, context, perspective and society all make up what is seen as good and evil. What one society views as evil, isn't viewed by another society as evil. There are circumstances, competing interests and underlying motivations involved as well as emotional dilemmas.

Moral relativism suggests that there are no absolute truths in ethics, and that right and wrong are influenced by cultural, personal, or historical factors. Even in strict moral frameworks, intentions, consequences, and the context of an action can determine whether it is deemed good or evil. This makes it difficult to classify actions, behaviors, or people in rigid terms of good or evil.

This is why you can't know the devil.

@emiliya Also, everyone knows the tree of knowledge story is an allegory for knowledge being dangerous to the status quo so Adam and Eve had to be punished. Any institution that is trying to maintain ultimate power doesn't want its people knowing too much, of course they were punished.

@SatanBurger You are wrong about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God knew that Adam and Eve would not be able to resist temptation. Satan asked them to eat from it and they did. If God wanted to destroy knowledge, he would get rid of Satan. It would be easy for him to get rid of Satan, but he chooses not to. Satan is necessary, and God wants us to know good and evil. There are consequences to everything in life. An action is going to invite another action. If we choose to follow evil, we are choosing Satan and separating ourselves from God. We are our own punishers. Our fate is in our hands; whether we follow the good path or the bad path. God has never punished us. Only we punish ourselves.

@emiliya But that's missing the point, why would knowledge be illegal in the first place. For the fact that the tree was forbidden because it contained knowledge that your god didn't want you to have is already evidence enough.

That's why it's an allegory for power imbalances. The tree wouldn't have been forbidden otherwise.

@SatanBurger It is not evidence. If God had wanted us to have no knowledge, to not know evil, there would have been no tree of knowledge of good and evil. This is fundamental to understand. I would think it very apparent that God wants us to know evil. He wants us to understand the difference between good and evil. If God wanted slaves, all he has to do is get rid of the devil, get rid of evil.

@emiliya The tree wouldn't have been forbidden in the first place. Let's say you're god, you can't simultaneously say you want humanity to have knowledge and punish them for taking from the tree of knowledge and yet forbid it in the first place. There's too many contradictions.

@emiliya So why did he tell Adam and Even not to eat from that tree?

The story is saying we're not supposed to be curious and seek knowledge. It's saying people are happier when they're ignorant and just blindly trust the system. It's basically a pro-authoritarianism story, which is common in religion, since most religions are about blind faith and worship of a powerful figure.

@BohemianBabe I believe that God is true, and you do not. For the sake of this discussion, assume that he is true. What do you want from God? Do you want him to take evil away? Ending evil means ending our knowledge of it. This would make God a dictator.

He is a forgiving God. Adam and Eve ate from the tree, and He still loves us. God knew they would eat from it. God says that no matter what we do, our sins can be forgiven if we seek Him. Isn't that good?

@emiliya It's not good to forbid knowledge in the first place. Only Hitler wannabes do that.