This is indeed a very well written and very well thought out piece. However, your analogy misses one vital point. Cakes actually exist in the physical realm. Therefore, the claims of the Papercakers can be very easily refuted. For someone who believes in a spiritual entity, this is simply not the case. Their faith cannot be refuted, or even challenged, by any form of physical proof.

Also, I would argue against Masterseekingone’s claim about religion causing the majority of wars. Wars are caused by a desire for territory and resources. In the past, religion may have been used to motivate armies, by giving them a righteous belief in their cause, but it very rarely actually caused the war.

i'm not picking and choosing to suit my case. i'm picking and choosing to suit your statement, vis a vis religion has caused more wars than anything else.

look at human history and we see that that's not true. in fact, i can only think of two wars that have directly been caused by religion. the Muslim invasions of 1400 years ago when Mohammad wanted to convert everybody to Islam and, the Crusades when the Christians wanted to take back the Holy Land from the Muslims.

prove me wrong by all means, but don't throw in wider issues that are not relevant to your claim. you don't like religion, that's your prerogative. i believe in God and belong to the oldest Christian denomination on the planet and there's a lot about religion that i too don't like. but that doesn't mean that i can make stuff up to suit my likes and dislikes.

Not really to be honest. I see so much damage so many deaths, so much cruelty being caused in the name of God that it just angers me.

When one of the richest organizations on the planet, the Catholic church, will allow millions to starve and suffer. When murders and atrocities are being made in the name of the Koran. When the church orders the murder of the Templars knights or the torture and death of thousands of women for being whitches. When war is fought for a piece of land that is only of signifiance because of God. When Moses was supposedly sent to take the promised land, which he did with force.

No I don't wish to discuss this, because it just makes my blood boil what people will do in the name of God and by doing so absolve themselves of responsibility.

there is no doubt that there is a lot of hypocrisy involved when religion is used to justify war, or any form of conflict. but your assertion is that religion causes wars. that's simply not the case.

neither of the two world wars were caused by religion. in fact, i would argue that you would be hard pushed to find any war, in the last hundred years or more, that was caused by religion. and that includes the conflicts in Afghanistan and Syria (where religious ideology is used to motivate). furthermore, what about communist countries who don't believe in any form deity. are you suggesting that they don't go to war?

@room101 caused in the name of religion or due to religious belief.

And if the point needs pushing. If one life is taken in the name of religion surely that goes against religions own beliefs.

For me religion is for the weak minded who need to believe there is a reason for life. We are born , we live, we die. It's that simple.

Your determined to push it aren't you. Well I obviously have more self control than you and am not going to follow you down the route of personal insult. Live your life the way you wish with your beliefs as I shall with mine. I have no need to prove anything what so e we to you. I wish you luck and all the best.

do you think? i mean, are you even capable of thought? doesn't seem like it. i've seen no evidence of it. therefore, according to the atheist mantra, if something cannot be empirically proven, it can't exist.

apart from the recent spate of Islamic terrorism, all that you've listed happened long before the hundred year challenge that i put to you.

like i said, i'm happy to leave this if you don't want to discuss it

mate, i've tried to walk away from this twice and each time you come out with drivel that you now label as truth. i thought that it was us religious types that were supposed to be irrational and illogical.

surely we can only do that if the topic being discussed is a matter of subjective opinion. your assertion can be proven or disproved by looking at historical facts.

the causes of the two greatest wars known to man is not a matter of interpretation. anyway, don't worry about it. you clearly don't want to have a discussion about this so i'll leave you alone.

A very well written piece, that I am in total agreement with.

I'll add this. More wars have been caused in the name of religious belief than in anything else.

You can't pick and choose. Religion covers the history of human kind you can't pick the last hundred years. That's making an argument to suit your case.

Hahaha I'll leave the drivel to the church I think

I'm afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Or bury the truth to hide the facts

No it's down to interpretation.

i'm speechless. totally speechless