I do not think it good that some churches ask its members to write their names on tithes, love gifts and offerings.

Like, honestly, it's a red flag to me.

“But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”
---Matthew 6:3-4

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Adstar · 56-60, M

NO!!

That is using subtle pressure on people..

Also Jesus said Charity sould be given in secret to stop people seeking the praise of other people for their charity efforts..

(Matthew 6:1-4) "[c=BF0000]Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven[/c]. {2} [c=BF0000]Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward[/c]. {3} [c=BF0000]But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:[/c] {4} [c=BF0000]That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.[/c]"

BritishPerson · 41-45, M

@Adstar It is mostly given in secret. Just the treasurer sees and he/she is no doubt going to keep it confidential. As I have already said, it depends if you want more money in the charity box or not. Over here in the UK, charitable organisations such as churches and Freemason lodges are able to claim 25p for every pound donated to them through gift aid envelopes. If four people donate £1 that £4 becomes £5. Depending on how many people donate that could add up to an awful lot of extra money for a good cause. It seems silly to me not to do it that way just because one person (the treasurer) will get to see what you donated.

Adstar · 56-60, M

@BritishPerson Someone still knows how much you have given and that person will be more affirming towards people who they know give more.. Humans are like that.. And i gave the scriptures in my last post.. Red words = What Jesus said:: Jesus said give in secret so you can avoid being praised by other people.. The LORD is not cool with virtue singaling human beings..

BritishPerson · 41-45, M

@Adstar It just seems to me that you are taking the principle to an absurd extreme. When I put money in a gift aid envelope at my lodge, my motivation for doing so is so that some of the money I already paid in taxes is taken from the taxman and given to people in need. The last thing on my mind is whether or not I am going to impress the treasurer (who likely doesn't care very much anyway). It really is all about what motivates you and we need to be careful not to become overly legalistic about such things.

Adstar · 56-60, M

@BritishPerson It just seems to me that you don't want to hear and believe the Words of The LORD Jesus... Not surprised actually..

[quote] When I put money in a gift aid envelope at my lodge my motivation [/quote]

No doubt a masonic lodge right.. You know the organization that requires you to say that you are in darkness seeking the light of masonry in your first initiation ceremony.... I guess you did that too RIGHT ? Woe to you if you where a Christian on the day you said that in your initiation ceremony because you will have just declared The Word of the LORD Jesus Christ to be darkness...

(Isaiah 5:20-21) "¶ Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! {21} Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!"

BritishPerson · 41-45, M

@Adstar I hear Jesus' words just fine. It's just that you haven't paid attention to anything I have said. You remind me of the Pharisees in Luke 6 who objected to Jesus healing the man with the withered hand on the Sabbath. The rule was not to do work on the Sabbath but taken to an absurd extreme it would have prevented someone from being relieved of their suffering. Here are some red letter words:

"Then Jesus said to them, “I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?”

Following Jesus' principle here, I don't think I am going to worry if the treasurer sees how much money each of us is putting in the gift aid envelopes because the alternative is letting the taxman keep the 25p extra for every pound raised instead of it going to help people in need.

I don't really think I want to get into a detailed debate with you about Freemasonry on here because I don't want to derail the thread. You clearly don't understand it if you think that its use of the analogy of darkness and light poses any issue with Christian teaching. Let's take it somewhere else if you want to talk about it though.

Adstar · 56-60, M

@BritishPerson[quote] @Adstar I hear Jesus' words just fine. It's just that you haven't paid attention to anything I have said. You remind me of the Pharisees in Luke 6 who objected to Jesus healing the man with the withered hand on the Sabbath. The rule was not to do work on the Sabbath but taken to an absurd extreme it would have prevented someone from being relieved of their suffering. Here are some red letter words:[/quote]

Naaa.. That's just 100% pure projection.. That comes from pride trying to justify themselves by falsely accusing others who deliver a hard message.. They always attack the messenger when the message cannot be overcome..

[quote]Following Jesus' principle here, I don't think I am going to worry if the treasurer sees how much money each of us is putting in the gift aid envelopes because the alternative is letting the taxman keep the 25p extra for every pound raised instead of it going to help people in need. [/quote]

And thus the worldly kingdom has caused you to disregard the King of Kings and LORD of LORDS.. Making your donation have zero effect where the LORD is concerned..

[quote]I don't really think I want to get into a detailed debate with you about Freemasonry on here because I don't want to derail the thread. You clearly don't understand it if you think that its use of the analogy of darkness and light poses any issue with Christian teaching. Let's take it somewhere else if you want to talk about it though.[/quote]

Not surprised.. The proud will never take conviction and repent.. They doggedly stand on their sinking ship just to protect their shallow self worth..

BritishPerson · 41-45, M

@Adstar

[quote]Naaa.. That's just 100% pure projection.. That comes from pride trying to justify themselves by falsely accusing others who deliver a hard message.. They always attack the messenger when the message cannot be overcome..[/quote]

I notice how you haven't actually responded to the point I made in order to show it to be invalid. Like the Pharisees, you're prepared to take a rule or principle to the absolute extreme to the point where you would rather someone continue to suffer as long as you stick to the strict letter of the rule.

[quote]And thus the worldly kingdom has caused you to disregard the King of Kings and LORD of LORDS.. Making your donation have zero effect where the LORD is concerned..[/quote]

I imagine the Pharisees would have said something similar to Jesus when he healed the man on the Sabbath. Like you, they would rather the man's suffering be prolonged than for the strict letter of the law to be broken.

I am quite happy to talk to you about Freemasonry. I just didn't want to derail the thread.

Adstar · 56-60, M

@BritishPerson I did respond to your point.. In my first replay.. But you seem to have an inability to read it and understand.. Shock hey?? Not to me.. People who reject the Word of God are given over to deception and delusion..

And your pharisse projecting does not work on me.. I am honored by God to face the false accusations of false accusers for His names sake..

(Matthew 5:11-12) "[c=BF0000]Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. [/c]{12} [c=BF0000]Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you[/c]."

BritishPerson · 41-45, M

@Adstar It really is really arrogant to accuse someone of "rejecting the Word of God" because they don't quite see it your way.

The fact is, you're taking a true Biblical principle (not to do good works in order to seek praise from others) to an unreasonable extreme to the point that you are preventing people from receiving as much help as they may receive. That's exactly what the attitude of the Pharisees was. Inflexible and extreme interpretations of rules which end up being to the detriment of others. You might not be able to see it but hopefully, third-party readers of this exchange will.

And you have a persecution complex too. People disagreeing with your stance or calling you out for holding an extreme view is not persecution. Don't claim it is and thereby insult those who truly are suffering persecution.

Adstar · 56-60, M

@BritishPerson [quote]@Adstar It really is really arrogant to accuse someone of "rejecting the Word of God" because they don't quite see it your way. [/quote]

No arrogance involved.. If i believe someone is rejecting the Word of God i will say so out of love for that person.. Giving them warning about the danger they are in is a good thing to do.. No matter if the person lashes out and calls one a pharrise or arrogant or makes up all kinds of false accusations against one..

[quote]The fact is, you're taking a true Biblical principle (not to do good works in order to seek praise from others) to an unreasonable extreme to the point that you are preventing people from receiving as much help as they may receive. [/quote]

No.. I shared the Words of the LORD Jesus on the matter.. Words that caused me to be personaly attacked.. You're not rejecting me when you declare the positon to be unreasonably extreme.. You're rejecting the LORD Jesus..

[quote] hopefully, third-party readers of this exchange will. [/quote]

I am not here for a popularity contest.. or to win some kind of popularity vote.. If 100 people declare they reject my posts then thats another 100 who are on their way to the eternal Lake of Fire..

[quote]
And you have a persecution complex too.[/quote]

Nope your the one who has been throwing around the parrise this and arrogant that accusations like confetti.. My first response had no personal attacks in it.. Your pride in your POV caused you to attack me personaly.. and yeah i am trully honored to face your viterol because i believe Jesus.. Unlike you..

[quote]Don't claim it is and thereby insult those who truly are suffering persecution.[/quote]

I believe Jesus so when He saus being falsly accused for standing up for His Word is persecution.. It is persecution.. End of story..