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I have always wondered why Catholics don't have a bible study program like we do in Protestant Churches.

This is from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops:

[quote]Scripture always has played an important role in the prayer life of the Catholic Church and its members. For the ordinary Catholic in earlier centuries, exposure to Scripture was passive. They heard it read aloud or prayed aloud but did not read it themselves. One simple reason: Centuries ago the average person could not read or afford a book. Popular reading and ownership of books began to flourish only after the invention of the printing press.

Once the printing press was invented, the most commonly printed book was the Bible, but this still did not make Bible-reading a Catholic’s common practice. Up until the mid-twentieth Century, the custom of reading the Bible and interpreting it for oneself was a hallmark of the Protestant churches springing up in Europe after the Reformation. Protestants rejected the authority of the Pope and of the Church and showed it by saying people could read and interpret the Bible for themselves. Catholics meanwhile were discouraged from reading Scripture. [/quote]
...

You would think after the Printing Press was invented, the Catholic Church would be gleaming with joy. They were not happy about the printing press. They wanted to keep the bible in Latin and in the confinement of the church, so no one but clergymen could read it.

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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

If the people are informed by Scripture would in large part abandon the Catholic religion/practices.

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SW-User

@hippyjoe1955
Which parts are you unhappy with?

And which denomination would you recommend?

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@SW-User The catholics don't acknowledge the all sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The worship of Mary, Purgatory, the mass being a sacrifice etc. I was ordained in the Anabaptist tradition and while it is not perfect I find it much more closely adheres to the teachings of Christ than the catholic tradition.

SW-User

@hippyjoe1955 Does the amount of water over you at Baptism make a difference then?

I’m sure you sing the Magnificat. And say the bits in the Nativity narrative that refer to Mary.

Don’t know where purgatory is. Is it near Limbo?

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@SW-User I baptise in a river or stream. I have never sung the magnificat. I do recount the birth of Jesus and the role that Mary had in that. I do not pray to Mary or any of the saints. I believe that Jesus death and resurrection is completely sufficient and there is no need for any further sacrifice or purifying punishment.

Justice4All · 36-40, M

@SW-User
[b]Holy Bible [/b]
Matthew 6:9-13

9 Pray then like this:
“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."

[b]Catholic bible[/b]:

Matthew 6:9-13

9 Pray like this:
Hail, Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
10 Blessed art thou amongst women
11 and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
12 Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
13 now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

graphite · 61-69, M

@hippyjoe1955 There is no worship of Mary. Jesus said to his disciple John, "This is your mother," from the cross. Mary in the BIble says "All generations shall call me blessed." Instead, Protestant denominations dismiss all this, just completely ignore her and call her a sinner. Good luck with that. Catholics don't acknowledge the sacrifice of Jesus Christ? News to me after 60+ years. The Catholic church has been around for 2,000 years, unlike some of the Protestant denominations founded in the 1800s or even 1900s that bash the Catholic church. Very very late to the game.

DrWatson · 70-79, M

@hippyjoe1955 The Bible readings for Sunday Mass in the Catholic church follow a 3-year cycle. Each Sunday there are three readings plus a psalm. The same lectionary is used throughout the Catholic church (and some Protestant churches have adopted it to a large extent as well)

A former Protestant who converted to Catholicism (I forget who: Maybe Scott Hahn) points out in one of his books that during a three year period, Catholics are hearing much more of the Bible on Sundays than the congregations of typical nondenominational churches, who tend to hear the pastor's self-selected pet passages over and over again.

In fact, a Catholic who also attends daily Mass will hear the entire Bible during those three years.

And that is in addition to reading the Bible, apart from hearing it preached on Sundays. (Yes, there are too many Catholics, especially older ones, who are not in that habit. But there are also plenty of Catholics who do read scripture on their own and go to Bible study groups.)

At any rate, if Catholics are not leaving the church, a lack of exposure to the Bible is not the reason.

DrWatson · 70-79, M

@Justice4All That is not what the Catholic bible says at all in Matthew.

graphite · 61-69, M

@Justice4All Nonsense. Matthew 6:9-13 New American Bible (Catholic) "This is how you are to pray. Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread and forgive us our debts, as we forgive debtors. And do not subject s to the final test but deliver us from the evil one."

graphite · 61-69, M

@Justice4All Might want to tread lightly there:
"I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book." Revelation 22:18-19, New American Bible.

SW-User

@hippyjoe1955 You did not actually answer my question. Does the amount of water over you at Baptism make a difference?
England was very cruel to Anabaptists in the reign of Edward the sixth. Accepting infant baptism, the Reformist Protestants rejected believers baptism, and subjected Anabaptists to a third, death by drowning.

There is a wide understanding of the Eucharist. I like you do not share the view of sacrifice.

Purgatory like you I do not accept And limbo was of course abolished by the Roman Catholic Church in the sixties.

Again, like you I do not pray to the Saints, or ask Mary to intercede on our behalf. Our Lord himself does that, as does the Holy Spirit.

According to my version of the Bible, Luke 1.21 Mary is the favoured one. The Lord is with you.
I will leave it there.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@SW-User I don't have a problem with Mary. I don't worship her. She was a favored woman not the Mother of God. Even Jesus never referred to her as mother. Instead He always referred to her as 'woman'. Let's be perfectly clear that the catholics killed a lot of protestants during the reformation. The Anabaptism that I hold to is in large part pacifist. Many in the tradition gave their lives rather than defend themselves. Anabaptist is simply a Christian who follows Christ's instructions over baptism. Jesus never said go sprinkle water over babies and call it baptism. Jesus said "Go into all the wold making disciples and baptizing them in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The early church according to the Didache agrees with the Anabaptist tradition not the catholic or orthodox tradition.

SW-User

@hippyjoe1955 If you don’t accept infant baptism by sprinkling, there were not many Christian’s around between the early church and the reformation!

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@SW-User I don't recall ever saying anything otherwise. If you recall I never brought up the dark history of Christian on Christian conflict. I simply point out that one of the big reasons for the reformation was the fact that the people could read the Bible in their own language. The other of course was the depravity of the catholic church. If ever an institution needed reforming it was the catholic church. Not saying anything about individual catholics who hold to the faith but lets be honest the catholic church has a less than stellar record.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@DrWatson So you think a church can do service to the Bible in three years? Seriously? I don't know about you but in my church we have three scripture readings each Sunday. One from the Old Testament, one from the Gospels and one from the Epistles. The sermon is usually based on those three readings. However the sermon is only the start. After the sermon is ended we all go to Sunday School which is examining a book of the Bible verse by verse with open discussion. Then midweek we have a Bible study in which we go through a book in the Bible verse by verse and often word by word. We encourage everyone in the group to bring a different translation as well as an interlinear text so we can read the original words. In Sunday School we are plowing through the Book of Hebrews and in the Bible Study we are examining the book of Genesis. There is no deadline for either study. If we spend the hour or two looking at one word that is perfectly fine. If we want to read an entire chapter without comment that is fine as well.

DrWatson · 70-79, M

@hippyjoe1955 My point is simply that I think it is inaccurate to say that if only Catholics knew the Bible, they would leave the church.

As I said, there are Catholic bible studies, and I do wish more Catholics would attend them.

At any rate, I read the Bible and go to studies and read commentaries and I am a more committed Catholic than I ever was.

But, if you find blessings in your own church, that is wonderful. I am not going to try to convince anyone to change churches.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@DrWatson It is very accurate to say that if catholics knew the Bible they would be demanding a change in the Church. The number of former catholics whom I have talked to tells me that if they knew before they would have left sooner. In my little Bible study of 10 people I have 3 who identify as catholic or former catholic. They have some very pointed questions as they learn the accounts of the Bible. They are amazed how the catholic church kept them in the dark about the Bible. They certainly aren't the first former catholics I teach and I hope that they are no the last. BTW I don't target catholics or former catholics. They find me. A few weeks ago I was teaching when one catholic lady came to the study. At the end of the evening she said that she learned a lot and would be back next week. She came back and brought a friend with her. Last week she and her friend were back again and they brought a third catholic. They all said they would be back next week.

DrWatson · 70-79, M

@hippyjoe1955 I can pull out stories about former Protestants and we can have this argument forever. Let's not. At any rate, I won't.

I am not here to malign other Christians.

SW-User

@DrWatson I’ve been surprised how anti Christian this site is.

Neither of you are helping.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@DrWatson Neither am I. I never mention the catholic church or its teachings in my study. It is of no importance unless I am asked about what I believe in regard to a catholic teaching or practice. Even then I don't disparage the teaching unless it is directly contrary to the Christian Gospel. Mariology and praying to saints is not brought up unless the student asks then the discussion is gently handled. They come to their own conclusions. God is made of 3 Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Mary is not the mother of God. There is no need to invoke the saints since you can approach the Throne with Abba Father on your lips. The sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross is completely sufficient and there is no need for purgatory or sacrificial masses being offered for the redemption of the individual. We serve a Father whose love we can not fathom and in whom death is no longer a threat or a punishment since our physical death is but a twinkling of an eye as we are transformed from physical beings to spiritual beings.

SW-User

@DrWatson Be interesting though what you make of me.

I’m a divorced and remarried Christian.
So that puts me outside the Roman Catholic Church!

I’ve not been baptised by immersion either. So that puts me outside the Anabaptists!

Thankfully God loves sinners, and we can rely on his goodness, mercy and graciousness.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@SW-User Just a question. Are you being obedient to Christ or are you just appending the title Christian to yourself as a kind of death insurance?

SW-User

@hippyjoe1955

Rev 3.20

DrWatson · 70-79, M

@SW-User I agree wholeheartedly!

How do I think of you? As my brother in Christ.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@SW-User Matthew 7: 21 - 23

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