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SW-User
Oh, boy—another day, another ancient deity!
Today's special: Baal, the Canaanite and Phoenician god of fertility, agriculture, and weather. Also known as Ba'al, Ba'al Hammon, Baal Hadad, and a host of other names, this deity was worshipped across the ancient Middle East; particularly in Canaan and Phoenicia.
Baal isn't a great guy—he's a pagan deity, duh—with a reputation for being a pretty big jerk. Baal was a local god, with different cults devoted to him in different places. Each cult had its own take on what Baal was the god of, and his nature and name could vary considerably. Some saw him as a god of thunder and storms, while others believed he was the sun god. Still, others thought of him as a war god.
That's not very helpful, is it? Well, Baal also had some consistent traits. The name Baal, in the Canaanite language, means "lord" or "master"—a word with the connotation of ownership. Baal was also often portrayed as the enemy of Yahweh, the Hebrew God. In this respect, Baal was a fertility god, and the son of El, the chief god. His mother was Asherah, and his consorts were Anat and Ashtoreth. Baal was also sometimes referred to as a bull or ram.
Baal's big thing was fertility—he made the crops grow and helped people have children. As you might expect from a deity so focused on reproduction, Baal's worship involved a lot of sex. His worship services included ritual prostitution and, at times, child sacrifice. Not very chill. No wonder the Bible has so many negative things to say about him.
The worship of Baal lingered among the Israelites for some time. Queen Jezebel of Israel—a Phoenician—was a big promoter of Baal worship, as was King Ahab. The Old Testament has a few choice words to say about them and their idolatry. You know things are bad when Bible characters start worshipping other gods!
In summary, Baal is a bit of a chump. Not someone you'd want to hang out with.
Today's special: Baal, the Canaanite and Phoenician god of fertility, agriculture, and weather. Also known as Ba'al, Ba'al Hammon, Baal Hadad, and a host of other names, this deity was worshipped across the ancient Middle East; particularly in Canaan and Phoenicia.
Baal isn't a great guy—he's a pagan deity, duh—with a reputation for being a pretty big jerk. Baal was a local god, with different cults devoted to him in different places. Each cult had its own take on what Baal was the god of, and his nature and name could vary considerably. Some saw him as a god of thunder and storms, while others believed he was the sun god. Still, others thought of him as a war god.
That's not very helpful, is it? Well, Baal also had some consistent traits. The name Baal, in the Canaanite language, means "lord" or "master"—a word with the connotation of ownership. Baal was also often portrayed as the enemy of Yahweh, the Hebrew God. In this respect, Baal was a fertility god, and the son of El, the chief god. His mother was Asherah, and his consorts were Anat and Ashtoreth. Baal was also sometimes referred to as a bull or ram.
Baal's big thing was fertility—he made the crops grow and helped people have children. As you might expect from a deity so focused on reproduction, Baal's worship involved a lot of sex. His worship services included ritual prostitution and, at times, child sacrifice. Not very chill. No wonder the Bible has so many negative things to say about him.
The worship of Baal lingered among the Israelites for some time. Queen Jezebel of Israel—a Phoenician—was a big promoter of Baal worship, as was King Ahab. The Old Testament has a few choice words to say about them and their idolatry. You know things are bad when Bible characters start worshipping other gods!
In summary, Baal is a bit of a chump. Not someone you'd want to hang out with.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@SW-User I think that depends on context, back in the biblical days, anyone who didn't worship Jesus was a heathen and subjected to a lot of propaganda. There were also different views around sex so I'm pretty sure a deity of fertility wouldn't have gone down well. In the Christian religion they had specific views regarding sex.
I do know that they practice sacrifices back then but so did Christians, it was common place and sacrifice still happens to this day but have become less due to education and secularism.
I also wanted to say that the bible does require sacrifice, your own issue is that people sacrificed to "other" Gods/Goddesses and not the Abrahamic one.
“Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.” (Genesis 22:1-18)
I do know that they practice sacrifices back then but so did Christians, it was common place and sacrifice still happens to this day but have become less due to education and secularism.
I also wanted to say that the bible does require sacrifice, your own issue is that people sacrificed to "other" Gods/Goddesses and not the Abrahamic one.
“Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.” (Genesis 22:1-18)
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SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@SW-User I mean the point is mainly that Christians can't say they never sacrificed. The Abrahamic religions had a lot of religious holy wars which can be seen as sacrifice, they killed in gods name which means it's a sacrifice. They did it so they could get into heaven i.e. sacrifice.
But sacrifice is a very Western view anyways. The reason people sacrificed was many different reasons that didn't have anything to do with gods. It had to do with class based reasons too. Think, a populace believes in a God and there has to be rich leaders. Those leaders controlled the populace thru sacrifices. There's a lot of evidence that points to class based warfare. So it's a little bit more complicated than just "those heathens sacrificed people."
On the other hand, when Christians had holy war, they did it because they honestly believed they were doing right by their God, which is a little worse in my opinion because they did it on purpose rather than out of ignorance.
But sacrifice is a very Western view anyways. The reason people sacrificed was many different reasons that didn't have anything to do with gods. It had to do with class based reasons too. Think, a populace believes in a God and there has to be rich leaders. Those leaders controlled the populace thru sacrifices. There's a lot of evidence that points to class based warfare. So it's a little bit more complicated than just "those heathens sacrificed people."
On the other hand, when Christians had holy war, they did it because they honestly believed they were doing right by their God, which is a little worse in my opinion because they did it on purpose rather than out of ignorance.
@SatanBurger That's just being loose with words. The term "human sacrifice" has never been broad enough to include any killing with religious motivations. If witch burnings and holy wars were human sacrifice, then 911 was a human sacrifice, which of course it wasn't, and no anthropologist, theologian, or anyone from a field that deals in those categories would consider it so. You can say Christians did religiously motivated killings tho. Jews of course did animal sacrifice and still do, but that's animal. You could argue that Jesus Christ himself was a human sacrifice too. Arguing that witch burnings and crusades are human sacrifice is goofy tho.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@BRUUH Regardless, there's several passages where God likes burned things, just wanted to pointed that out. There's several chapters where sacrifice is concerned and that's mostly my main point. But there would be no reason for witch burnings or crusades if they weren't human sacrifices because the reason for having them is because you honestly want to believe there's a God and you want to appease them.
If it didn't matter, it wouldn't be holy wars, it would just be a war.
If it didn't matter, it wouldn't be holy wars, it would just be a war.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@BRUUH God said he liked burned offerings, holy wars often burned people in those villages and burned people at the stake, fire is rather significant but it could be a coincidence who knows.
@SatanBurger Well I feel you on the idea that yahweh commanded sacrifices. I am just saying that the term human sacrifices refers to a ritualistic killing, not just one done cause God wanted you to for whatever reason. Like, 911 wasn't a sacrifice for instance, even tho it was done by some ppl who wanted 72 virgins.
SW-User
@SatanBurger could not find any evidence that the Old Testament—specifically the book of Leviticus—advocates for human sacrifice.
On the contrary, several sources I found explicitly state that human sacrifice is prohibited.
However, the text does contain some pretty weird shit.
For example, God apparently has a serious thing about people eating fat and blood. Leviticus states that anyone who eats fat or blood from an animal will be cut off from their people. God also demands that animals be treated in a certain way and that only specific animals be sacrificed—and they must be unblemished. This seems like a lot of fuss over something that will just end up as ashes.
Some have suggested that the sacrifices described in Leviticus are a metaphor for something bigger. One source I found states that: > The animal was not considered just a distant commodity as is generally the case in today’s world of corporate agriculture; rather, it was a creature that the owner raised and saw on a daily basis, and whose needs were a matter of personal responsibility and even concern.
Apparently, the whole animal sacrifice thing was a way of helping people learn to appreciate the value of life, and also the upcoming sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Oh, and also—according to some interpretations anyway—the sacrifices served as a form of payment to God.
That all sounds like a load of bull to me. Sorry—couldn't resist.
On the contrary, several sources I found explicitly state that human sacrifice is prohibited.
However, the text does contain some pretty weird shit.
For example, God apparently has a serious thing about people eating fat and blood. Leviticus states that anyone who eats fat or blood from an animal will be cut off from their people. God also demands that animals be treated in a certain way and that only specific animals be sacrificed—and they must be unblemished. This seems like a lot of fuss over something that will just end up as ashes.
Some have suggested that the sacrifices described in Leviticus are a metaphor for something bigger. One source I found states that: > The animal was not considered just a distant commodity as is generally the case in today’s world of corporate agriculture; rather, it was a creature that the owner raised and saw on a daily basis, and whose needs were a matter of personal responsibility and even concern.
Apparently, the whole animal sacrifice thing was a way of helping people learn to appreciate the value of life, and also the upcoming sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Oh, and also—according to some interpretations anyway—the sacrifices served as a form of payment to God.
That all sounds like a load of bull to me. Sorry—couldn't resist.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@SW-User There's also different versions of the bible because it's been rewritten, yeah you can't find it in YOUR bible, that actually doesn't mean anything. On the site I gave you, it specifically list which biblical verse but you already know it has sacrificing in it don't you? You admitted it and you say you can't find anything but later you said:
Why would anyone suggest anything or make justifications for sacrificing things if it were as you say:
Then go on to say:
No one would discuss anything of the sort, after all it's not there.
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Now, onto the metaphor part. How would you know? You weren't back in that time period. The bible being several different versions, written by several different people. One person must have thought sacrifice was good, another thought it was bad and said "oops, we'll make the new testament!"
That's what happened there for sure.
But unless you were back in that time period, no one can really know for sure. All I know is that it did have sacrificing in it and Christians, seeing as how they waged holy wars, would have probably been dumb enough to do it. They would have had to, these were people who made worship of other Gods illegal.
Some have suggested that the sacrifices described in Leviticus are a metaphor for something bigger. One source I found states that: > The animal was not considered just a distant commodity as is generally the case in today’s world of corporate agriculture; rather, it was a creature that the owner raised and saw on a daily basis, and whose needs were a matter of personal responsibility and even concern.
Why would anyone suggest anything or make justifications for sacrificing things if it were as you say:
could not find any evidence that the Old Testament—specifically the book of Leviticus—advocates for human sacrifice.
Then go on to say:
On the contrary, several sources I found explicitly state that human sacrifice is prohibited.
No one would discuss anything of the sort, after all it's not there.
------
Now, onto the metaphor part. How would you know? You weren't back in that time period. The bible being several different versions, written by several different people. One person must have thought sacrifice was good, another thought it was bad and said "oops, we'll make the new testament!"
That's what happened there for sure.
But unless you were back in that time period, no one can really know for sure. All I know is that it did have sacrificing in it and Christians, seeing as how they waged holy wars, would have probably been dumb enough to do it. They would have had to, these were people who made worship of other Gods illegal.
SW-User
@SatanBurger Uhm, bible not MINE,(agnostic to the core🤷), but put it simply, sacrifice has been a part of life since the beginning of time. According to "the Bible", God demanded sacrifice from his people as soon as Adam and Eve had sinned and needed to make amends. Initially, this took the form of obedience and physical offerings.
let's talk about some other cultures and their take on sacrifice.
Aztecs
The Aztecs were big on sacrifice, performing gory rituals in which victims—often captured warriors or slaves—had their hearts ripped out. They also practiced ritual cannibalism. Fun!
Aztec sacrifice was a ritually complex process and considered a necessary form of payment or repayment to the gods. Without these offerings, the sun would cease to rise and the world would end. Human sacrifice was also a political tool, used to intimidate enemies and showcase power. The scale of these rituals was unprecedented, with hundreds or even thousands of victims sacrificed each year.
But it's important to note that sacrifice went beyond human victims. Animal sacrifice was also common, and the Aztecs bred dogs, eagles, jaguars, and deer for this purpose. They even had specific gods for whom certain animals were an offering, such as the cult of Quetzalcoatl which required the sacrifice of butterflies and hummingbirds.
Maya
The Maya of Mesoamerica also performed human sacrifices, alongside the Toltecs and Purépechas. Like the Aztecs, their beliefs centred around the need to nourish the gods with human blood and hearts. The Maya also believed that human sacrifice could bring rain during times of drought.
Other Cultures
Let's not forget the Romans, Greeks, Japanese, Chinese, Africans, Andeans, and Egyptians—all of whom also performed human sacrifices. In fact, some of their methods make the Aztec rituals described seem like a walk in the park. The ancient Greeks immolated humans during the Trojan War, and the Romans crucified countless people, including Christ. The Chinese buried servants alive to accompany their rulers in the afterlife, and the Assyrians liked to flay people alive. The Inquisition used some pretty barbaric methods of torture, and Vlad the Impaler was famous for his violent impalements.
Some cultures placed little value on human life, conducting sacrifices on a massive scale. The Aztecs, it seems, were not unique in their love of sacrifice—just exceptionally good at it.
let's talk about some other cultures and their take on sacrifice.
Aztecs
The Aztecs were big on sacrifice, performing gory rituals in which victims—often captured warriors or slaves—had their hearts ripped out. They also practiced ritual cannibalism. Fun!
Aztec sacrifice was a ritually complex process and considered a necessary form of payment or repayment to the gods. Without these offerings, the sun would cease to rise and the world would end. Human sacrifice was also a political tool, used to intimidate enemies and showcase power. The scale of these rituals was unprecedented, with hundreds or even thousands of victims sacrificed each year.
But it's important to note that sacrifice went beyond human victims. Animal sacrifice was also common, and the Aztecs bred dogs, eagles, jaguars, and deer for this purpose. They even had specific gods for whom certain animals were an offering, such as the cult of Quetzalcoatl which required the sacrifice of butterflies and hummingbirds.
Maya
The Maya of Mesoamerica also performed human sacrifices, alongside the Toltecs and Purépechas. Like the Aztecs, their beliefs centred around the need to nourish the gods with human blood and hearts. The Maya also believed that human sacrifice could bring rain during times of drought.
Other Cultures
Let's not forget the Romans, Greeks, Japanese, Chinese, Africans, Andeans, and Egyptians—all of whom also performed human sacrifices. In fact, some of their methods make the Aztec rituals described seem like a walk in the park. The ancient Greeks immolated humans during the Trojan War, and the Romans crucified countless people, including Christ. The Chinese buried servants alive to accompany their rulers in the afterlife, and the Assyrians liked to flay people alive. The Inquisition used some pretty barbaric methods of torture, and Vlad the Impaler was famous for his violent impalements.
Some cultures placed little value on human life, conducting sacrifices on a massive scale. The Aztecs, it seems, were not unique in their love of sacrifice—just exceptionally good at it.
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