@RoboChloe and that's not even scratching the surface of the ethical nightmare that testing people is in the first place.

@RoboChloe @RoboChloe Hey, Chloe. I hope you are doing well. Do forgive the lateness of my response, I am only just dedicating time to giving responses.

[quote]she's not just a passive christian, she goes to church[/quote]Going to church is not what makes one a Christian. If it were, then every single person is a Christian. If going to church makes one a Christian, then the church furnitures are more Christian than we are because they are present everyday.

Now I am not saying she is no Christian - I do not know, so do not think me to be going on some outlandish extreme - I merely am causing you ro understand that one is a Christian not by word but by action.


[quote]even though she has to see her abuser there[/quote]
You must encourage her to report the matter.
And this I say: the abuser does not represent the virtues of Christianity.


[quote]why did she attempt suicide? because of the problems in her life that were, from a religious perspective, caused by god. GIVEN THE ASSUMPTION THAT GOD EXISTS: all hardship is a test, because god is all powerful and all loving, so any hardship that isn't a test wouldn't happen, because it wouldn't be loving, and god could stop it. [/quote]Where you pull that up from - "all hardship is a test" - I do not know, because it definitely is not from the Bible. What the bible says instead is that hardship is in the world primarily because of human sin & choice to reject God & govern themselves. OUR decision, not God's.
Therefore your whole argument from that point is mute (because it is false).

Now whilst God is able to use hardship to accomplish a GOOD purpose, He never creates hardship for the sake that a "good" person may always suffer. He is not some sadist.

[i][b]The Lord is...longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.[/b]
II Peter 3:9[/i]


[quote]did you really need examples to know that christians commit suicide? while it is true that religious people (not just christian, but religious in general) are less likely to attempt suicide, that doesn't mean that they never do.[/quote]
I repeat - just as I have spoken in my precious response -  I did not state, nor imply, that persons identified as Christians do not commit suicide. My argument is that God leads NO ONE to a point of suicide.

[i][b]No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.[/b]
I Corinthians 10:13[/i]

[i][b]Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.[/b]
James 1:13‭-‬14[/i]


[quote]asking for examples implies...[/quote]This point would be of good stance if it's premise were right. I did not ask for examples of people identified as Christians committing suicide, only of - that you might back your claim - God leading/causing a person to commit suicide. And you have stated your point - you believe all hardship to be from God - and I have corrected you, using even the word of God.


[quote]and so is the god of every human being,[/quote]
You have come to that conclusion solely by yourself and I have not led you to that.
The bible teahes the very opposite: "all have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God" and that sin is a wide gulf which SEPARATES us from God. That is the whole point of Jesus Christ: God working to bring man back to Him; to cancel the gulf created by sin, only if man would choose to repent & believe.

So, no, God is not the God of every human being. Your remarks alone testify to this.


[quote]his "tests" of atheists leading them to attempt suicide are just as valid as evidence for this.[/quote]As I said to you before & so repeat - please learn not be dogmatic. If you are corrected, take correction & be not blinded by your views - God does NOT test atheists. A school does not lay out tests/exams for students of a different school but of its own school, so also God does not test those who are not His.
(P.S: God does not test merely for the sake of knowing a person's ground - whether with or against Him - but for the sake that the person's faith & relationship with Him might be strengthened & grow mature.
Untested silver is weak & impure until it goes through the fire; a student is made ready for the exam when he prepares for the tests before the exam. Thank you)


[quote]if god is all loving and has the ability to fully enact his will, then god will not allow people to suffer[/quote]"Has the ability to fully enact His will". All through this while, you have made many conclusions about God. Now, how you gonna judge the man when you don't even know the man? That's like trying to tell me William Shakespeare loved chocolate croissant. Like fam, YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE MAN.

God is all loving, correct, but He has given mankind a free choice & will not go against it - a choice to accept Him or chose our own way ([i][b]...I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live[/b]-
Deuteronomy 30:19[i]) - He will force no one, and so the majority choose the latter, so we see why the world is in shambles. Because man chooses to play god.


[quote]hence, if god does not test atheists, then they should not suffer. they do, hence either god does not exist, or god tests atheists.[/quote]This thinking is circular - it leaves you between a rock & a hard place, without your knowledge. For starters, it is based not on truth/fact but on YOUR derivative.
Secondly, your blame suffering on God, & it must be Him if He does exist. Okay. Well, you believe He does not exist, & if He truly does not, yet suffering is still a prevailing reality.
Sooooo, in a godless existence, what then is the harbinger of suffering? Hmm. I wonder.

You see now? Rock & a hard place. Circular thinking.


[quote]i would argue that he is responsible for suffering and suicide[/quote]
And this you do, not based on fact or the biblical account of God in fact, but on conjecture and your own personal vexation with the thought of a supreme being.


[quote]the exact biblical god[/quote]
I am glad you made this point, going as far as emphasising even - [i]"exact"[/i] - because you have spoken of a God entirely different from the Bible's testament & have made allusions to Him which are not even in any relation to Him. So you certainly do not speak of the "exact biblical god", and we see that clearly because I have quoted the bible itself & what it says about God & hardship surely is different from your many conclusioms about Him & arguments against Him.
You contradict again.


I ask of you, Chloe - please - read the Bible. Come to know what God has to say for Himself, about Himself, & over the world & mankind.
If you would try a person to court, at least fair judgement would have that you hear the defendant out, is it not?

Please, Chloe, just read , wit sincerity & wanting to know, not from a bias, closed heart.

After this, then judge for yourself, whether God indeed is good & loves mankind & is real, or not - I for one am convinced that a person willing to give the innocent down for the guilty that the guilty might be vindicated, truly loves that guilty one.


THANK YOU🙂❤