Any Greta Thunberg fans here ?

@likesnatural No, I don't think she does, either; but not just her.

The more strident the campaigners, protesters, politicians or journalists, whatever their views, the less credible I find them, however well-meaning or sincere they are.

Unfortunately too many are too ready latch on to hysterics and ignorance than reasoning and analysis, but humanity is facing problems largely of its own making, far too serious for hysterics and ignorance.

@likesnatural I would say you don’t understand how to write English properly

@ArishMell Please tell me how people who are shrieking for people to wake up and demand the climate crisis is tackled are in any way “ignorant”

Also, the trouble is, those who, in your mind, are not “hysterical” or “ignorant” are not taking the problems we face, most of all climate change, anything LIKE as seriously as they must.

@SW-User I do not condemn people for genuine ignorance. No-one can know everything. I know iron from steel but not how to play a violin or calculate a balance-sheet.

I agree we are facing serious climate and other problems, and would add I think we have left these far too late. They should have been addressed 100 years ago when first raised.

I criticise those who campaign stridently in ways that suggest they do not understand basic science and engineering even at the level they should have learnt in their school geography and science lessons, but worse, make little or no effort to understand them.

I also criticise policy makers who are not strident but similarly appear publicly not trying to understand, what they are trying to regulate.

Not genuine ignorance but the wilful sort.


For a simple example, some months ago a question arose in BBC Radio Four's [i]Any Questions[/i] current-affairs discussion programme, regarding the proposal to open a new coking-coal mine in NW England to reduce having to import coal, and indeed iron and steel.

The three politicians on the panel all understood, vaguely, that it is needed for "steel making" (first mistake) but more or less admitted they had no idea why. Yet this is not university engineering degree knowledge. It was something we were all taught in school, decades ago!


{[i]For those [iu]genuinely [/u]not knowing[/i]:

The coal is distilled to coke, which is nearly-pure carbon, for smelting iron-ore to pure iron in a blast-furnace. The coke is the fuel burnt to melt the ore, a rock composed of mainly iron-oxide. Being [i]carbon[/i] it also removes the oxygen from the ore [i]oxide[/i], and takes it to itself, [i]but[/i], and this is the problem, both the combustion and the reduction make [i]carbon-dioxide[/i] as the by-product.

The iron and steel trade is trying to find suitable reducing-agents, possibly hydrogen, in electric-arc furnaces; similarly to a 19C process patented in Italy in the 1880s, and used in Sweden, Germany, Canada and the USA in the [i]1920s[/i]! That probably still used carbon but in far smaller volumes for the same iron output.

Steel is made [i]from[/i] and is mainly, iron, but the raw iron can be melted electrically. }

@ArishMell I get your point, but this has nothing to do with Greta Thunberg and why she, or anyone else regarding tackling climate change, is ignorant.

@SW-User Ignorance of any subject simply means lack of knowledge of that subject.

The OP asks who is a fan of Greta Thurnberg. I am not, not because she is a climate activist [i]per se[/i] - and apart from her occasional act of petulant irritation I credit her with sometimes being so in a civilised manner.

It is because I have always wanted to know the problems and possible solutions from those of much greater technical knowledge than mine, and I am afraid, hers.

I do not have a Degree in anything but I [i]do [/i]know steel from iron, power from energy, specific from latent heat, carbon from carbon-dioxide and which is the "baddy", thermoplastics from thermosetting plastics; the importance of crude oil beyond fuels, etc.. Does Aunty Greta? Has she any useful academic and professional career experience in any technical field? So far, I have seen or heard little evidence that she does or has - yet she struts about the world enjoying being lauded as some sort of World's Saviour.

Not everyone discussing climate change is ignorant, of course not, though a minority are wilfully so; but I want to learn about it from those I trust and respect as understanding it. Not mere shouters, road-blockers and crocodile-tears shedders.

@ArishMell [quote]I do not have a Degree in anything but I do know steel from iron, power from energy, specific from latent heat, carbon from carbon-dioxide and which is the "baddy", thermoplastics from thermosetting plastics; the importance of crude oil beyond fuels, etc.. [b]Does Aunty Greta? Has she any useful academic and professional career experience in any technical field? So far, I have seen or heard little evidence that she does or has - yet she struts about the world enjoying being lauded as some sort of World's Saviour.[/b][/quote]

Ah, but she has [i]never[/i] claimed to know more about climate change than you or me. Fact.

She does not claim to even be a scientist. Fact.

But I'm afraid she speaks the truth in unapologetically frank terms. And the way she says we can give ourselves hope for the future is so obvious that I can't believe I have to tell you, but anyway...

[big]LISTEN TO THE SCIENTISTS!![/big]

@SW-User Maybe she doesn't know a great deal, and perhaps not need to but I fear people like her deflect attention from proper, objective debate.

You and I listen to the scientists, so might Miss Thurnberg. Many won't, but I think for various reasons ranging from vested interests, to simple denial of unpleasant truths including a potential end to their comfortable life styles.

@ArishMell Exactly. That is why people hate her. They see, thanks to her, the reality that we are ALL going to have to make some sacrifices to our lifestyles in some way, if we are to survive as a species. No scientist hates Thunberg, let me assure you on that front.

By the way, what do you mean by proper objective debate? What are we debating? I hope you're not suggesting we debate whether climate crisis is happening...

@SW-User Debate not on what is happening but how to deal with it in ways that do not themselves create serious, possibly environmentally damaging, ways.

At the same time as all having to make sacrifices mainly in likes more than needs, there are also millions of people around the world who really do want and need some of the things we in affluent and dare I say it, profligate, countries take for granted. I don't mean luxuries like giant televisions, big motor-cars, sprawling out-of-town supermarkets and flying off to holidays abroad; but vital services like clean drinking-water, proper drainage, electricity and reasonably healthy homes.