@Elessar yes I definitely think that it is meant separators in this case! Lol I don’t consider myself a MAGAT, but I do support some of his ideas, a lot of times he is too extreme in going about them. He’s too extreme for me a lot of times. But so are the left. We need someone more equal to peoples standards left and right. We need to unite that would definitely make America stronger and on the same page. That would be peaceful. I do however believe that we need to keep America with a strong military to prevent any hostile countries taking over or challenging us.
@specman I think you guys need a major electoral reform, independently from the ideas.
Too many ideas concentrated in only two parties, all because the electoral system would absolutely decimate any party that attempted to split, so you necessarily end up with "big tents" that are ultimately worse than our average European coalitions as they're fixed, and smaller internal factions don't have any leverage on the dominant ones. Proportional systems like we have here have their massive issues too, but in comparison they seem functional.. 😬
You guys don't really have a leftwing either; you have currently a far-right party and a wannabe "centrist" one that consistently shoots itself on the foot, and literally campaigns together with the *Cheneys* during the final run of an election year, instead of doing serious/credible opposition.
@specman Left? What left? As far as I can tell there are no leftists in US politics just various varieties of corporatists. At least none with any chance of implementing any of their ideas.
"But the Democrats really aren't left. As @Elessar said, they are wannabe centrists."
It's true that the Establishment Democrats aren't left in the European sense.
But there is a loony left wing in the party, one of whom is likely to become mayor of New York City in a few months.
There once was a Red named Mamdani, In Gotham a lately-come-Johnny, Who appeared on the scene, Turning Democrats green;* 🤢 Gotham's outlook seemed meager and scrawny.
* e.g., Hochul, Schumer, Gillibrand, Cuomo, all Establishment Democrats.
@Thinkerbell The majority of New York voters don't consider him that. I personally consider Trump the looniest, but evidently the majority of Americans does not. Mamdani as well as the test of the socialdems in there barely qualify slightly left of center, there's no actual left in the USA (/west, at this point).
The country moved so much to the (far) right that barely advocating for public healthcare or a bare minum safety net now gets you called communist lol
Also the party will do all in its power to sabotage him so that's another reason to say there's practically no leftwing in the American political stage
@Thinkerbell More like when the CIA decided to kill it
According to several Western European researchers, the operation involved the use of assassination, psychological warfare, and false flag operations to delegitimize left-wing parties in Western European countries, and even went so far as to support anti-communist militias and right-wing terrorism as they tortured communists and assassinated them, such as Eduardo Mondlane in 1969.[5][6][7][8] The United States Department of State rejected the view that they supported terrorists and maintains that the operation served only to resist a potential invasion of Western European countries by the Soviet Union.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
"Who, us? Communists? Oh, no, not at all... we are democratic socialists." 😂 🤣 😂
Hella ignorant view that confirms my point that you're (plural) absolutely clueless about what communism even is, and you use it as a buzzword to elicit a fear reaction.
When has Mamdani or anyone else with a relevant position within the party (AOC, Sanders) advocated for the elimination of private property, common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange? Because last I checked, they're all about regulating capitalism and not replacing it.
That is true, because they have state and national elections they wish to win
If that was the case they wouldn't sabotage* the very candidate that the majority of voters selected.
Looks like the country that boasts about being the "greatest democracy in the world" doesn't understand the most basic concept of democracy either.
@Elessar Ben Franklin said we have a republic if we can keep it. We have a representative government. In a true democracy each citizen vote on the laws directly.
@lasergraph Pure democracy is a subtype of democracy, representative democracy is also another subtype of democracy. If you read the article I've linked (he's from a Libertarian source btw) you'll find it all explained in detail there, and references to the forefathers agreeing on the broad definition.
Saying the US is not a democracy is pure nonsense that completely disregards the past 250 years of American history.
Judging from Italian election results between 1948 and 1988, the CIA seems to have been singularly unsuccessful in "killing it," despite Operation Gladio. 🤭
Until 1991, that is, when the PCI disbanded. Maybe the CIA arranged for the Soviets Union to disband too. 🤭
"When has Mamdani or anyone else with a relevant position within the party (AOC, Sanders) advocated for the elimination of private property, common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange?"
Of course they are not going to openly advocate for hardline communism at this point in history, as I mentioned in my previous comment. They would be relegated completely to marginal status, as are the few openly hardline communists in Italy today.
"If that was the case they wouldn't boycott the very candidate that the majority of voters selected."
Wrong. Just the majority of voters in a primary election in a city whose party affiliation distribution is much different from the corresponding state and national distributions. THAT is why no major Democrat in New York state-wide office (governor or either senator) has endorsed Mamdani.
constitutional republic vs democracy A constitutional republic and a pure democracy are distinct forms of government, with the key difference being that a republic's power is limited by law to protect minorities, whereas a pure democracy operates on the will of the simple majority. The United States, for example, is a constitutional republic and a representative democracy, a blend of these ideas that was designed to prevent a "tyranny of the majority". Constitutional republic A constitutional republic is a system where the public elects representatives to govern according to the rule of law, as defined by a constitution. Rule of Law: The government's power is limited by a written constitution, which serves as the supreme law. This prevents a simple majority from enacting laws that violate the fundamental rights of individuals or minorities. Protection of Rights: A republic is designed to protect minority rights from being overridden by the majority, guaranteeing specific liberties and protections that cannot be voted away. Elected Representatives: The public elects officials to make laws and administer programs on their behalf. This representative system is necessary for managing governance in a large, modern society. Separation of Powers: A constitutional republic often features a separation of powers, such as distinct executive, legislative, and judicial branches. This system of checks and balances prevents any single branch or officeholder from gaining unlimited power. Pure democracy A pure democracy, or direct democracy, is a system where the majority rules directly on all government matters. Majority Rule: In this system, citizens vote directly on laws and policies, and the will of the majority prevails. The minority has little or no protection against the power of the majority. Impractical for Large States: A pure democracy is only practical in small communities where all citizens can gather to vote on every issue. This makes it unworkable for modern, complex nations. Vulnerable to "Mob Rule": A key concern of the U.S. Founding Fathers was that a pure democracy could devolve into "mobocracy," where emotions and passions could sway the majority to oppress a minority. Overlapping concepts: The U.S. model The confusion between these terms often arises because modern systems like that of the United States are a hybrid. The U.S. is best described as a constitutional federal republic with a form of representative democracy. It has democratic elements because the people hold sovereign power and elect representatives. It is a republic because those representatives govern, and the head of state is not a monarch. It is constitutional because its government and representatives are limited by the supreme law of the U.S. Constitution, which protects against the unlimited power of the majority. What Is Democracy? * Government of the People. Democracy may be a word familiar to most, but it is a concept still misunderstood and misused in a time when totalitarian regimes an...
American Institute in Taiwan U.S. Government - U.S. Embassy in Argentina While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional”...
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Constitutional Republic - EBSCO Unlike a monarchy, where leaders inherit power, a constitutional republic mandates that the head of state is elected, typically through a process of universal s...
EBSCO By definition, a republic is a representative form of government ... By definition, a republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to a charter, or constitution, and a democracy is a government that is ...
Connecticut General Assembly (.gov) The United States: Democracy or Republic? | Origins Oct 14, 2024 — These governments would rest on the consent of the governed, but, unlike in a democracy, the majority would not rule. Many of the U.S. founding fathers imagined...
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Constitutional republic - Simple English Wikipedia, the free ... What their power is limited to is written in the constitution. If there is dispute about what the constitution means, this is decided by a court system that is ...
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Republic - Wikipedia Although a republic is most often a single sovereign state, subnational state entities that have governments that are republican in nature may be referred to as...
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58s Democracy Vs Republic | What's the difference between a Democracy ...
YouTube·Illustrate to Educate Constitutional Republic Meaning & Definition - GoodParty.org The concept of a constitutional republic has its roots in ancient Rome, where the Roman Republic operated from around 509 BC until the establishment of the Roma...
GoodParty.org Republic v. Democracy - WallBuilders May 29, 2023 — Republic v. Democracy * Founders & Democracy. We have grown accustomed to hearing that we are a democracy; such was never the intent. The form of government ent...
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Unit 2 High School Government Flashcards - Quizlet What is the difference between a republic and a democracy? By definition, a republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to a charter...
Quizlet By definition, a republic is a representative form of government ... By definition, a republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to a charter, or constitution, and a democracy is a government that is ...
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Reddit · r/PoliticalScience 460+ comments · 1 year ago What's the difference between a Republic and a Democracy? The difference is the outcome. A democracy gives total power to majority elected officials. A "constitutional" republic restricts those powers, ... "We are not a democracy (...) We are a constitutional republic ... - Reddit r/ShitAmericansSay · 310+ comments · 1y Difference between democracy and a constitutional republic? - Reddit r/AskHistorians · 9 comments · 1y
Connecticut General Assembly (.gov) https://www.cga.ct.gov PDF By definition, a republic is a representative form of government ...
The main difference between a republic and a democracy is the charter or constitution that limits power in a republic, often to protect the individual's ... 1 page·88 KB People also search for
mininggazette.com https://www.mininggazette.com Constitutional Republic vs. Democracy | News, Sports, Jobs Mar 29, 2024 — There's a huge difference between Democracy and a Constitutional Republic. A democracy is a political system in which the people periodically, by majority, ...
The Ohio State University https://origins.osu.edu The United States: Democracy or Republic? | Origins by LS Regele — The word democracy is nowhere in the Constitution (the word “republic” is), although the document did set up a federal system of representative ...
WallBuilders https://wallbuilders.com Republic v. Democracy A republic differs in that the general population elects representatives who then pass laws to govern the nation. A democracy is the rule by majority feeling ( ...
U.S. Embassy in Argentina (.gov) https://ar.usembassy.gov U.S. Government - U.S. Embassy in Argentina While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic.
Quora 8 answers · 2 years ago What are the differences between a constitutional republic and ... What are the differences between a constitutional republic and a democracy? Why did the United States choose to become a constitutional republic instead ... You need to read Thomas Jefferson's autobiography. We are a democratic republic. Republicans ... More Top answer · 29 votes I will give another answer, in an effort to be complete and succinct. The word “democracy” ... More 10 votes The two systems have some similarities, but the republic is infinitely better. The classic ... More 5 votes I think the republic is about organization of government (elected and non-heritable), and ... More 3 votes Yes. “a democracy” and “a republic” are terms used to define a system of governance. ... More 2 votes There’s no conceptual opposition between republic and democracy. The US is both, constituted ... More 2 votes The Constitution established the federal government, created the Congress, the presidency, ... More 2 votes A republic is governed by representatives who act on behalf of the citizens. Those citizens ... More 1 vote The writers of the US Constitution did not like democracy and thus the original version ... More 1 vote Because the founders knew that direct democracy is a failure. James Madison f
@Thinkerbell In Italy it's coalitions and not individual parties that govern; the PCI never led a government, and Andreotti, Cossiga and others literally admitted to the existence and role of Gladio.
If you're here insisting that the CIA didn't mess with our political system I've got a huge bridge to sell you, forget connecting Messina to Calabria, we'll connect Rome to D.C. too lmao
Of course they are not going to openly advocate for hardline communism at this point in history, as I mentioned in my previous comment. They would be relegated completely to marginal status, as are the few openly hardline communists in Italy today.
Seems a weird and totally arbitrary conjecture, not even backed by evidence. If embracing an extremist position was disqualifying, how comes the modern far-right is winning elections?
Also you need a hella lot of mental gymnastic to go from "the CIA did nothing wrong because we don't have photo-evidence of the meddling" to "socialdems are secretly communists but they won't tell anyone for some obscure reasons" lmao
Just the majority of voters in a primary election in a city whose party affiliation distribution is much different from the corresponding state and national distributions
Yet they're sabotaging him. If the state and national distributions were "much different", they wouldn't need to do anything.
As I stated, the very core concept of democracy (popular vote to determine leadership) seems to be critically misunderstood over there.
@Elessar Also by the definitions given most countries are constitutional republics and that includes those European countries that are nominally monarchies because of the course the various kings and queens are only titular heads of state and not monarchs in the sense of being rulers.
So that wall of text was a lot of repetition of a distinction without a difference.
@ninalanyon Yeah. Literally nobody minus post-2016 "conservatives" would argue that the US is *not* a democracy, the forefathers themselves literally called it one. Jefferson even omitted the "representative" specification, implying that even back "democracy" could be used in reference to the representative form.
This point is absolutely nonsensical and anti-historical
The famous quote is "A republic, if you can keep it," attributed to Benjamin Franklin, who said it to a woman named Elizabeth Willing Powel on the last day of the Constitutional Convention in 1787 when she asked him what form of government had been created. Franklin's response highlights the fragility of a republic and the ongoing responsibility of the citizenry to maintain it through their active involvement and consent. Context of the Quote Date and Place: September 17, 1787, at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. The Question: Mrs. Powel, an influential Philadelphia socialite, asked Benjamin Franklin what kind of government the delegates had established. Franklin's Response: He replied, "A republic, if you can keep it". Significance of the Quote A Warning: Franklin recognized how difficult it would be to maintain the new form of government, which was still new and untested. Citizen's Responsibility: The quote emphasizes that a republic relies not just on its foundation but on the continuous, informed, and active participation of its people to remain healthy and stable. A Constant Challenge: It serves as a reminder that citizens must be vigilant and engaged to prevent the decline or collapse of the republic. Dive deeper in AI Mode AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
NPS.gov https://www.nps.gov September 17, 1787: A Republic, If You Can Keep It (U.S. ... Sep 22, 2023 — “A republic, if you can keep it.” --Benjamin Franklin's response to Elizabeth Willing Powel's question: "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or ... People also ask Which founding father said we have a republic if we can keep it? Does the US Constitution say we are a republic? What was Benjamin Franklin's last great quote? Why did Ben Franklin say A republic, if you can keep it? Feedback
The Library of Congress (.gov) https://blogs.loc.gov “A republic if you can keep it”: Elizabeth Willing Powel, Benjamin ... Jan 6, 2022 — “A republic if you can keep it”: Elizabeth Willing Powel, Benjamin Franklin, and the James McHenry Journal Images We Have A Republic If We Can Keep It - Benjamin Franklin Quote Poster We Have A Republic If We Can Keep It - Benjamin Franklin Quote Poster
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Michael Watson Secretary of state (.gov) https://www.sos.ms.gov OPINION COLUMN: "A republic, if you can keep it" Apr 10, 2024 — When Benjamin Franklin was once asked what type of government the Constitutional Convention adopted, his cautionary response was, “A republic, ...
The National Constitution Center https://constitutioncenter.org Perspectives on the Constitution: A Republic, If You Can Keep It His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it." The brevity of that response should not cause us to under-value its essential meaning:
