I Am Going to Say Something Controversial

Are they the same? - no. But can you honestly tell me that the two aren't deeply interrelated, with socialists falling on the far left of the political spectrum and agreeing with almost every liberal ideal? Can you honestly tell me that a liberal and a socialist won't get along like peas in a pod, because they agree on practically everything?

Uhh suree, if you look at the political spectrum as one dimensional? but things are really not that simple so no I don't agree

Okay, then explain to me what a liberal and a socialist would disagree on, with enough examples to justify the idea that they're not largely the same.

youre asking me to compare a political system to an economic system.. this is like apples and oranges

I'm asking you to actually back up your assertion, which so far you haven't been willing to do whatsoever. Instead, you keep trying to poke holes in the very idea that socialism and liberalism are related, despite most people recognizing that they are (though the degree of the relationship could certainly be argued).

Here's why I'm going to stop talking to you now: first, you said that "liberalism and socialism are two completely different political ideologies" then you said "youre asking me to compare a political system to an economic system.. this is like apples and oranges"

So what is it - are they both political ideologies, or is one a political system and one an economic (rather than political) system? Your non-evidence assertions aren't even consistent, much less are they backed up with any evidence or data. This isn't even a political discussion that we're having - it's you trying to trip me up with self-contradictory "logic" that's based on nothing.

So, respond if you want to - but I'm not going to respond to anything else that you say (unless you magically become a different person with different priorities and actually give me something real to argue against).

@BlueDiver: I'll jump in. What about the military? As I mentioned above, the yearly U.S. military budget isn't much less than the rest of the world combined. I'd say most liberals have a problem with that.

Can you somehow back up your assertions? Because I can just pull out a dictionary to defend mine

@Ynotisay: That number is misleading, since the US also has a much, much larger percentage of the world's resources than any other country. I think I read somewhere that we have 20 or 30% of the world's resources, despite only having a few percent of the world's population. Having 10 times more resources will naturally mean that we spend a much larger lump sum of resources on the military, just like we spend a larger lump sum on everything, but a larger lump sum doesn't mean that we spend a larger percentage of the budget.

If youre talking about consumption, we do use about 25% of certain energy resources in the world. But this is stuff that we import, not extra capital that we have to spend on military

@BlueDiver: Misleading, huh? OK I'll use the basis of your argument.

When comparing GDP's of different countries what's called the PPP is used. That's purchase power. China is at roughly $21T and the U.S. is about $18.5T

China, a country with 1.3 BILLION people spends roughly $131B a year on the military. The U.S., with only 320M people, is usually between $600B and $700B in the DoD budget. A billion less people, a smaller PPP and about five times the military expenditure.

And natural resources? OK. Russia has almost TWICE the natural resources of the U.S. and spends about $64B on the military. Yeah...they have about half the population but even if their military budget was doubled it would still be about $500B short of the U.S.

I'm getting the sense that "misleading" means numbers you don't agree with. Could be wrong though.

@BlueDiver: The simple definition of Socialism:

A range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim to establish them.

i.e. it is both an economic and political ideology.

The simple definition of Liberalism:

A political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.

i.e. it is a political ideology.

Concepts such as social reform, social welfare, equal rights for all, affordable healthcare and education do not a socialist make.

These concepts are the whole essence of community i.e. not acting primarily out of self-interest.


Boy, Edward Bernays really did a number on you lot. And it seems that he was completely correct when he described Americans (in his essay titled The Engineering of Consent) as:

“fundamentally irrational” and could not be trusted to decide anything for themselves.

Case in point, the 2016 election!

@Ynotisay: ah but are your figures based on "alternative facts" 😂😂😂