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I Am Going to Say Something Controversial

To those who say: "the government isn't allowed to spy on its citizens and that's more important (than the lives of our agents abroad):"

That argument can certainly be made - except that Snowden and Assange didn't have to release the part about our agents abroad in order to release the part about illegal spying on our own citizens. Nor did they have to release it in a form that put our agents at risk. They chose to be hasty and careless because they thought the same way that you do - that their cause was so important that it trumped all other considerations, including the lives of hundreds of people who were risking everything for a cause larger than themselves. There's a word for taking that kind of my-cause-at-any-cost perspective and putting it into action at the cost of other people's lives - it's called being a fanatic.
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Doomflower · 36-40, M
When Snowden released that information I remember saying, "didn't we already know this? Did anyone think the government wasn't spying on us?"
SW-User
Exactly!!!
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
Yeah, but there's a difference between assuming something, and having proof. Not to mention that I don't think most people would have guessed just how criminally invasive the full extent of it was.
SW-User
@BlueDiver: I was a diplomat to China. My 13 year old daughter had her own spy. The ammount of surveillance here is laughable.
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
@Laifu1: Heh, well yeah, if you're going to compare anywhere to the "People's Republic" of China then you'll fall short on that count - that's like losing an arm wrestling contest with Superman.
Doomflower · 36-40, M
@BlueDiver:
you're right most people didn't know the extent and scope of it but most people are fools.

It's just like Russian influence on the election. We already knew. I am getting tired of finding out I am right after its too late for my prediction to be useful.
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
@Doomflower: You're seriously one of those conspiracy theory super-liberals who think that Russia wanted Trump? Are you really that desperate to discredit his presidency at any cost? Why would Russia want the unpredictable dumbass who's most likely to carelessly start a war with them? I may regret this, but okay, hit me - what's your evidence?
Doomflower · 36-40, M
@BlueDiver: If I didn't think it was true I wouldn't have said it. Phone calls, leaks from within the WH/campaign headquarters, dossiers, and business connections have shown for quite some time that 45 is in Russia's pocket and it's gotten to the point it can't be ignored anymore.

If I were a gambler I would venture to bet that he is being blackmailed too and I would guess either russia or Bannon hold his strings.
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
What phone calls, specifically? What leaks, specifically? What dossiers, specifically? What business connections, specifically? None of what you just said is evidence, it's just statements that evidence apparantly exists.
Doomflower · 36-40, M
@BlueDiver: Our intelligence agencies confirmed that Russia was deliberately influencing our election and we already knew 45 had business ties that made good relations with russia profitable for him. Stories of it have been running since before the election. I just don't see how anyone could NOT know about it.

As this story unfolds you're going to be like... "whoa that blue chick was right."
BlueDiver · 36-40, M
You still haven't pointed me at a single piece of evidence. And in my experience, when someone talks about a conspiracy theory as if it's established fact that no one in their right mind would possibly think to question (when most people would say that the opposite is true), then it's time to back away and let them believe what they want to believe.
Doomflower · 36-40, M
@BlueDiver: hey it isn't my fault if you haven't been paying attention for the last year and a half. Look for yourself. I didn't realize this wasn't just common knowledge or I would have a better set prepared. :-D

You don't have to believe me because the truth will come out in the end. Just remember people like me tried to warn you.
SW-User
@BlueDiver: I would rather live in China under Xi JinPing than in the US under Trump. At least there I never had to worry about my safety. There are no rednecks in guns shooting up schools and very little crime. The Chinese care about education, unlike people here.
Doomflower · 36-40, M
@Laifu1: Chinese people and culture are kick ass too. So much more polite in general. Americans think they are the center of everything.
SW-User
@Doomflower: When we came back to the US, we ran into the nastiest TSA agent I have ever seen. She wouldn't allow a little boy, who couldn't have been older than 5, go through the screening line with his parents. He was sobbing in fear, so she screamed at him. It was like "Welcome to America..."