I Am Going to Say Something Controversial

When they report a crime，media should be obliged to always tell the criminal's citizenship, and in case they are second or third generation immigrants, to mention it.

Population has the right to know which people groups are their strongest potential threats, and then demand authorities that measures are taken against them.

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room101 · 51-55, M

@Cierzo A lot of therefores in the above.................all of which are completely contradicted by the undeniable fact that every culture enshrines the basic principles of; do not kill others, do not steal and, do not lie in its social constructs.

Above you said:

“with laughable attempts to awake ideologies that have been dead for 70 years to describe those who dare to disagree the status quo”

Are you suggesting that Nazism and Fascism are long dead ideologies?

I took the following photographs at an anti-immigration and anti-EU rally in Rome in May, 2016.

https://similarworlds.com/9408790-I-Am-Flabbergasted/635542-I-dont-know-whats-going-on-in-the-world-Ive-spent

The rally was organised by a group who call themselves CasaPound. The second part of their name is taken from Ezra Pound, a renowned fascist and supporter of both Mussolini and Hitler.

You will note that, in the first photo, the guy in the front is making a white power salute while the guy behind him is making a Nazi salute. In the second photo we see what was at the head of the march. Interestingly, Spain, France and Italy are all represented. And that black flag that you see second from the left is not an ISIS flag. It’s the flag of a Greek far-right group who call themselves Χρυσή Αυγή, or Golden Dawn. They too are a fascist group who celebrate and promote Nazism. So no, Cierzo, Fascism and Nazism are not long dead ideologies and what you are advocating is playing straight into their narrative.

Cierzo · M

@room101 There are nazis, but their relevance in politics today is the same as that of flat earthers in geography.

room101 · 51-55, M

@Cierzo and they will only remain to be irrelevant if people like you and I resist the temptation to follow their fear and paranoia.

Cierzo · M

@room101 I loathe nazis as much as you do. But I am sick and tired that the word is so easily used to dismiss politicians whom I have in high esteem like Marine Le Pen or Viktor Orban. I understand their politics are not your, or everybody's cup of tea, but using that word against them instead of arguments is really shallow. As shallow, and untrue, as calling Obama a communist

room101 · 51-55, M

@Cierzo I wouldn't go so far as to say that the likes of Le Pen etc are Nazis but, they do legitimise those with Nazi and Fascist ideologies.

Cierzo · M

@room101 I don't see why that legitimation happens. Being a nationalist and a nazi are different things. Do Sanders or Corbyn legitimate stalinism then?

room101 · 51-55, M

@Cierzo Not Stalinism no. But they do promote Marxism which is what ultimately led to Stalinism.

Perhaps that's where you and I diverge so much. You don't see how Nationalism and the discrimination of others based on their nationality or race or creed or whatever, ultimately leads to Fascism, whereas I do. You don't see how the sort of measures that you are promoting and the rhetoric of the likes of Nigel Farage and Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, emboldens and legitimises all of the Fascist and neo-Nazi groups out there, whereas I do.

The bottom line here Cierzo is that there is absolutely no evidence which supports the idea that any one nationality etc is any more prone to violence and crime than any others. In fact, when we look at human history, from the very start of our civilizations to today, what we actually see is what I've been saying all along. We all have the same basic moral and ethical principles and we are all prone to violence and crime. Those things do not discriminate, they are there in all of us.

Cierzo · M

@room101 It is hard to find nations, at least big ones, that have not behaved in a violent way one time or another, but not with the same frequency or intensity.

There is no evidence that any nationality is more violent than others at this moment because that evidence is hidden by media. What I am asking for is that information to get to the public opinion and with those figures realise who is right and who is wrong.

room101 · 51-55, M

@Cierzo Earlier you mentioned the flat-earthers and how irrelevant they are to geography. Did you come to that conclusion because of the media or because the knowledge gleaned from geography. Similarly, when we look at such matters as morality, ethics, violence and crime do we look at the media or do we look at our knowledge gleaned from history?

Clearly the answer has to be history and any other academic knowledge e.g. philosophy, psychology, sociology and so on. The media has nothing to do with it. They are there to disseminate news..........at a profit!

Cierzo · M

@room101 Geography, history...you can learn in books, but where else you can learn about current affairs but the media?

room101 · 51-55, M

@Cierzo Think about what you've said. Think about how this discussion has evolved. Your proposal is that the nationality of criminals should be stated by the media, then you say that the information is hidden by the media. You seem to acknowledge that much of the media has its own agendas. So, what happens to that data when it comes into contact with the agenda of a given media outlet. A right-wing outlet will present the data in one way whereas a left-wing outlet will present it in an opposing way.

How does that help the general population?

This is yet another reason why I disagree with your proposal. But, it boils down to the same thing. A narrative is established which divides and discriminates and does nothing to help neither the migrant population nor the homogeneous population.

Cierzo · M

@room101 My point is that media should forget about narratives, just present the facts and let people get their own conclusions. Treat their readers and viewers like adults, and not like kids.

It is you who is talking all the time about left, right, being divisive. I know that strategy of blaming others of your own behaviour, and it sucks.

room101 · 51-55, M

@Cierzo Yes, I'm talking about left and right because, as history (not the media) has shown us, it's at the extremes of political ideology that we find strategies like the one that you are proposing being enacted. And always with divisive, and devastating, results.

We've been going backwards and forwards with this for days and you are yet to provide any kind of tangible evidence that supports the idea that some nations are more inclined towards crime than others. Without that evidence, your entire proposal falls flat on its face and shows itself to be nothing more than blaming others for the ills of our societies.