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So if gun control isn’t the solution what is?

Honest question. I’m pro 2nd amendment but this isn’t sustainable. Arming the teachers isn’t going to help. The guy was wearing body armor, even the cops couldn’t stop him from getting in. More money for cops obviously isn’t the solution for the same reason. This isn’t the first time a shooter wore body armor. A guy had a gun and returned fire in buffalo but the shooter wore body armor there too.

So honestly what is to be done?

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SatanBurger · 36-40, F

It's not that giving guns to good guys don't work, it's the training, most people don't train for active combat scenarios. They have to have training to fundamentally practice day in and day out until they know the layout of the school or place by hearing alone. What most people think of as training is essentially daycare and NOT training at all. You've got multiple issues to worry about with training, you need to train fight or flight responses, you need to train for any threatening stimuli, SERE training is good (survive/evade/resist/escape,) you need to desensitize yourself, you need good target practice.

All of that goes into training and let's be honest, unless it was specialized security, they're not going to be trained right because the average person doesn't do that. It's like with bush crafting or survival wilderness training, most don't have the skills because most don't have that mindset but you kind of need that mindset to have successful gun training for active shooter scenarios.

I'm not saying it's a solution but my solution would be to actively train "good" people for that situation but they're not willing to do it. Believe it or not, I've worked in govt agencies but not in a higher tier level job, let me tell you the training of anything no matter if it's dishwashing, food service or whatever... even small menial tasks are not trained properly at all. The management for anything in govt is SO incompetent that if people were to find out how these agencies are actually managed, they would be scared. Even hospitals, I've worked in hospitals where I wouldn't be surprised if a person's surgery was botched because of poor management and other things.

If people only knew.

So that's just my thoughts, it's not that giving guns to good guys doesn't work but there's a lot to take into consideration, you have to have good training and to make it into something that is repetitive so the person trains for those things. You can't just get a certification, hit some targets and then have a gun, think you're going to take someone out.

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SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@CopperCicada I would feel better if my metaphorical kid was in care of someone that knew what they were doing, yes.

NoahB · 26-30, M

@CopperCicada yeah i agree. if you want the teachers and custodians to also be trained crisis respondents than you need to at least add a police officers salary to their original salary

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@CopperCicada [quote]We have come to question that in unnecessary shootings by police on calls to deal with mental health crises.[/quote]

But we're not talking about that, we're talking about active shooters in a school setting. Would you prefer a therapist come in and ask them to tell the world how they feel while having an AK?

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@NoahB I think it's scary when people are actively opposed to better training. It's the one reason why cops be frantic with guns, lack of training scenarios where their fight or flight response isn't trained properly. That's scary to me personally. It's just scary. Better training is better training, hands down.

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NoahB · 26-30, M

@SatanBurger [quote]But we're not talking about that, we're talking about active shooters in a school setting. Would you prefer a therapist come in and ask them to tell the world how they feel while having an AK?[/quote]

Thats not what he's saying. He's saying you shouldn't call a cop on someone having a panic attack because the cop could needlessly kill and shoot them. So you shouldn't expect a teacher to act like an action movie hero and fire at an armed gunman. It's not their job and they didn't become teachers to engage in fire fights. Similarly, police officers don't become police officers to walk people through mental health episodes.

[quote]I think it's scary when people are actively opposed to better training. It's the one reason why cops be frantic with guns, lack of training scenarios where their fight or flight response isn't trained properly. That's scary to me personally. It's just scary. Better training is better training, hands down.[/quote]

Really? I think the cops (who have training) showing up before the gunman entered the school and being unable to stop the gunman from entering the school is way scarier

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SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@CopperCicada[b] It was obvious what I mean[/b]

Actually we were talking about active shooters and then it switched to a different subject entirely. I genuinely didn't know but if you'd get your dopamine from playing victim I won't stop you from assuming and feeling important because you feel like you know

[b]She has a problem with me
[/b]

I've rarely talked to you in private message and on forums, why would I have an issue with you. Talk about narcissism, hope you got your dopamine hit for today playing victim.

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@NoahB But teachers and security are two different things, I'm talking about security professionals.

NoahB · 26-30, M

@SatanBurger don’t really know if that’s a solution either. 2 cops confronted the shooters at the doors and couldn’t stop him. A cop is about the best security you can hope for outside of hiring a black water mercenary. The cops actually let the gunman roam around the school for about an hour too before he was shot. Some rinky dink security guards and teachers with guns can’t be expected to work better than cops already on the scene

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NoahB · 26-30, M

@CopperCicada I disagree. The cops could have absolutely stopped the shooter if they were so inclined. He wasn’t wearing an Ironman suit. They made a collective decision to not risk their own lives to save children. Some did however attempt to save their own children however.

Don’t think they can be blamed for it but it’s a clear demonstration that the police are of little help in these situations even when they are on the scene. A metal detector will only be useful if the people who are staffed to run it can be relied upon to act on dangerous situations. Which I think this event clearly demonstrates is not something you can ever truly gauge even among professionals who’s job it is to do just that. In short I don’t think any reactionary technologies is sufficient to address this issue.

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NoahB · 26-30, M

@CopperCicada could be a good tactic moving forward when building schools. I’d support an infrastructure policy to remodel schools across the country. Lord knows it’s better than bailing out the same corporations over and over again

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@NoahB Police get less than 6 months of basic training but hey if that's enough for you then by all means 😃

NoahB · 26-30, M

@SatanBurger we ship soldier off with way less training

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@NoahB I disagree with that even, not enough.

NoahB · 26-30, M

@SatanBurger disagree all you like its true https://mybaseguide.com/army-basic-training/#:~:text=The%20complete%20Army%20basic%20training,with%20your%20friends%20and%20family.

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@NoahB Never said it wasn't true, I said I disagree with shipping them off. You said they ship soldiers off at the same amount of time, I said I disagree with the amount of time regardless of it was a police officer or soldier.

NoahB · 26-30, M

@SatanBurger more training means more money. this police department alone gobbled up 40% of the cities budget. I'm sorry but I don't think we can keep throwing money at the police to solve every problem

SatanBurger · 36-40, F

@NoahB Okay then they can keep piss poor training and we'll just deal with it, give and take.

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