So if gun control isn’t the solution what is?

Honest question. I’m pro 2nd amendment but this isn’t sustainable. Arming the teachers isn’t going to help. The guy was wearing body armor, even the cops couldn’t stop him from getting in. More money for cops obviously isn’t the solution for the same reason. This isn’t the first time a shooter wore body armor. A guy had a gun and returned fire in buffalo but the shooter wore body armor there too.

So honestly what is to be done?

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Heartlander · 80-89, M

Interesting details about Ramos emerging.

Mom with a drug problem. Police called frequently to the house.
At some point he moved in with his grandmother. The one he murdered.
Teased and bullied at school over speech impediment, stopped attending.
Had difficulty interacting with girls.
He may have been a cutter.
One of his friends said that they's drive around and shoot people at random with a BB gun and egg other cars.

A sad situation all around. There is far more to all this killing than gun control. Was there no safe haven for the kid to get validated and find refuge? Church groups? Boy Scouts? School/youth clubs? etc. Otherwise troubled kids will eventually find one another or just let the resentment ferment until it explodes.

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@Heartlander Yeah, what about people with mental issues. What about it? Guess what... teenagers blow up everywhere. But in America, they are packing semi-automatics because they are easily accesible.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@Kwek00 ... or maybe they find church groups, youth clubs or other places where kids can find validation and acceptance and get that resentment curbed. Or maybe the schools in other places do a better job at catching kids before they fall through the cracks. Maybe neighborhoods in those other countries are still neighborhoods and not simply collections of dwellings. Or maybe when the police get called out for domestic disturbances the police don't just leave when everyone stops yelling at one another. Maybe there's follow up intervention to help diver the kids away from growing resentment and bitterness, and towards something better. Or maybe in those other places, they were more successful with their ar on drugs.

For all the hype about "it takes a village", where's the actions?

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@Heartlander I guess we still can't talk about what makes "America" so special when it comes to this. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@Kwek00 What makes us special is our freedom. What's to discuss there?

Not all of us are free but at least some, even many of us are free. Apparently personal freedom isn't held in high regards by others around the globe, or even some Americans. But it's like a delicious bowl of ice cream, no one is forced to enjoy it. If horseshoe is more to your liking help yourself. But please keep it away from my ice cream :)

NoahB · 26-30, M

@Heartlander is that really a fair metaphor? I mean you eating icecream doesn't have any implications to the safety of people who dont eat icecream

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@Heartlander I'm not really sure if I would admire my personal freedom that much if my kids have a high percentage of being shot at their elementary school. I think I would feel a lot more free, if I can keep those worries out of my life. It's nice that you enjoy your guns it's just a pitty that enjoyment costs a lot of fellow citizens their life every year. But I guess as long as you are enjoying yourself, that's okay.

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@NoahB The icecream remark shows a little bit what we have to work it... just like the:

[quote]Attention to the school shootings seems to be more about political opportunity than about the tragedies themselves. Like why do some tragedies become headlines while tragedies with far greater loss of life escape with a shrug of the shoulders?[/quote]

When you are living in a country that has numbers that beat pretty much every other developed nation when it comes to this phenomena. All because a part of the sollution means that people have to self reflect on what freedom they demand and what consequences that freedom has in society. And this group people, somewhere along the way, have decided that self reflection is unescessary because they live in the best country of the world full of good people.

NoahB · 26-30, M

@Kwek00 yeah sadly i think the icecream comparison really tips off that this guy is not seriously engaging with this topic past sound bites.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@Kwek00 Our kids went to a great Montessori schools for their early years. One was part of a small university and the other fairly well canceled. It was the choices we had that Democrats fight tooth and nail agains and public school boards tend to poo-poo with their refusal to admit that Maria Montessori had far better insights into the education of young children than the teachers' unions.

School Choice would give parents who may be concerned about school security the freedom to find a more secure school.

NoahB · 26-30, M

@Heartlander if the solution is school choice than surely you acknowledge that some schools will not have the same level of security as others. So the shooters will just keep going for the softer targets. This changes nothing. Besides the school that just got shot up had a built in police department. Doesn't get much more secure than that

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@Heartlander I also don't see any reason how this would help the issue? Like, is there any data on this... at all. Or is this just you remembering the good old days, in a diffrent time period, in a diffrent society and then pretending that template for some reason still works?