Gun control in the US.
Is there a good argument for NOT limiting the weapons to which civilians have access? Like these AR-15s or whatever. How is making them illegal a bad thing?
Tell me!
Tell me!
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CopperCicada · M
I'm strongly libertarian. So I'm radically against attenuating freedoms. I'm also sick and tired of people abusing the right to firearms. Discharging a weapon in proximity of roads and residences. Discharging a weapon in public parks and green ways. Discharging a weapon recklessly in a natural setting endangering others. Walking around the neighborhood with guns drawn as if one were on patrol, waving guns around threatening people. Violating basic hunting etiquette like killing animals and leaving them to rot, leaving carcasses to rot, leaving carcasses and dressing animals and leaving a mess in public green ways. Leaving guns and ammo unsecured, kids getting into them, getting stolen, and so on. If I did any of this crap coming up my patriarchs would still be beating me beyond the grave. This would largely be a non-issue if gun enthusiasts would stand up and mentor and call out these pricks, and not give it a pass "because of the 2nd amendment". That's precisely the way to make gun restrictions happen.
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CopperCicada · M
@humongous No. If you read my narrative, I say I wish people would be responsible and call people out on inappropriate behavior and hold them accountable for it-- not throw down more gun restrictions that won't fix anything unless attitudes change.
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SW-User
@Celine I think the term "freedom" when it comes to firearms is misapplied. There is no value there. Speech, the Press, fredom of worship, Voting...these are values of a democratic republic. Guns have no role in the protection of freedom unless we were in some alt-right Apocalypse fantasy. The Founders got this one wrong.
CopperCicada · M
@Celine I guess I look at it through the lens of my own experience.
The people in my life who were murdered by a firearm were shot with weapons that are not up for debate regarding restriction. Ordinary non-automatic non-semi hunting rifles and hand guns. The ammo-sexuals who were acting out in my neighborhood-- the same. The times I have been endangered in the woods or green ways-- the same. The carcasses and offal I find out on the trail-- the same. The gun inflicted suicides in my circle-- the same.
The gun nuisance, tragedy, grief, pain in my life isn't from full automatic or semi's.
It's from people abusing this tool called "gun" and no amount of legislation will change that.
The people in my life who were murdered by a firearm were shot with weapons that are not up for debate regarding restriction. Ordinary non-automatic non-semi hunting rifles and hand guns. The ammo-sexuals who were acting out in my neighborhood-- the same. The times I have been endangered in the woods or green ways-- the same. The carcasses and offal I find out on the trail-- the same. The gun inflicted suicides in my circle-- the same.
The gun nuisance, tragedy, grief, pain in my life isn't from full automatic or semi's.
It's from people abusing this tool called "gun" and no amount of legislation will change that.
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CopperCicada · M
@Celine It's not a bad thing. It's just a pointless and ineffective thing unless one gets to root causes.
SW-User
@Celine You are correct, of course, but the gun fetishists are interested in the pleasure they feel in their absolutism. Further, as Trump supporters have shown, they are motivated primarily by their hatred of liberals. Nothing gives them more pleasure than liberals wanting guns banned after a mass shooting, knowing it won't ever happen.
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CopperCicada · M
@Celine I guess I am more cynical in two things.
One, my estimation of the sheer number of full auto and semi weapons out there, and my recognition that even with a ban they're staying out there.
Two, my confidence in the human capacity to commit mass violence regardless of the resources availability.
So I'm back to: let's deal with the root causes of violence and degenerate gun culture.
One, my estimation of the sheer number of full auto and semi weapons out there, and my recognition that even with a ban they're staying out there.
Two, my confidence in the human capacity to commit mass violence regardless of the resources availability.
So I'm back to: let's deal with the root causes of violence and degenerate gun culture.
SW-User
@CopperCicada I don't accept that stopping the manufacture of objectionable weapons would not be a positive development. Buy-back programs have been successful for example. We have to start somewhere and over time there would be fewer such guns available.
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CopperCicada · M
@SW-User Like I said to Celine above, my views are based on my experience. The homicides, suicides, prick-waving, and reckless gun incidents in my life were with non-automatic non-semi weapons. And in every case the gun-fetishists and ammo-sexuals on deck at the time contorted themselves in grotesque defenses of the abusers of gun rights. Sometimes I feel people are more careful and critical of people using a roofing nail gun than an actual firearm.
There is a cognitive bias with mass shootings. It's like airplane crashes. They get our attention because of the magnitude of the horror. And it seems the dialog always fixates on the ban of {set of weapons}. So we fixate on removing a tool that can kill 30 people at a shot, but by ignoring root causes of violence and toxic gun culture we do nothing about hundreds of people killing one or two at a time.
I'd be on a totally different trip now if after something like Las Vegas the dialog was about just that-- root cases of violence, toxic gun culture, and so on. But we never do. Never ever.
There is a cognitive bias with mass shootings. It's like airplane crashes. They get our attention because of the magnitude of the horror. And it seems the dialog always fixates on the ban of {set of weapons}. So we fixate on removing a tool that can kill 30 people at a shot, but by ignoring root causes of violence and toxic gun culture we do nothing about hundreds of people killing one or two at a time.
I'd be on a totally different trip now if after something like Las Vegas the dialog was about just that-- root cases of violence, toxic gun culture, and so on. But we never do. Never ever.
CopperCicada · M
@Celine Like I said to @Brando2-- I'd be on a totally different trip if we actually had a dialog about root causes. But we never do. Never ever. We jump right to semi's and leave it there. FAIL.
SW-User
@CopperCicada I am a believer in "don't let the perfect be an enemy of the good" but I appreciate your point.