russia is a good example of Communism

@Elessar That is what communism evolves into eventually….same with china

@Vivaci Nah, not necessarily no. We have mafia controlled regions over here without having gone through anything resembling socialism/communism.

Actually at most it's the consequence of "let's let the free market regulate itself", which certainly isn't a leftwing idea.

@Elessar Agreed mafia is every where.

But countries where the governments have become mafia like are/were once communists.

🤭 exactly! All they see is greed..and personal profits…let the country gth. 🙁

@Elessar Soviet/Russian-style Socialism/Communism is not the only path to Mafia-style government, but it is one path.

@Vivaci Not at all, the mafia here was born long before we had anything resembling or even just calling itself "communist" or "socialist". As early as the 1500s, it's (way) older than Italy itself, than the Russian federation, than the USSR, than socialism and than capitalism too.

@Elessar Again, as I said, Soviet/Russian-style Socialism/Communism is not the only path to Mafia-style government, but it is one path.

@sarabee1995 Oh yes, but pretty much every social/economic system experimented so far will be exploited by criminal organizations in one way or another, Soviet era communism represents no exception.

Running the government is one option, but that'll only work in deeply flawed democracies or fully totalitarian states, as the risk of being voted out by the population in an actual democracy would be too high. In the democratic world, they generally tend to either organize themselves as secret societies (think of south-Italy mafia clans, the Mexican drug cartel, etc.) or as above-the-law corporations/organizations, both of which are capable of bending the elected government either (and respectively) via bribery/corruption, or via "donations"/lobbying.

@Elessar Soviet/Russian-style "Socialism/Communism" is very much an exception to the modern world. To claim it is no exception is insanity. The level of corruption in the former SSRs was so pervasive that a new word had to be created: Kleptocracy.

One by one, they are throwing off the shackles of this Kleptocracy and Ukraine is only the latest to reject it and this rejection is at the true core of Russia's feeling threatened.

And equating "donations"/lobbying with bribery/corruption is absurd. I'll be the first to admit that lobbying is not perfect, but before you equate the entire concept with bribery/corruption take a look at the various ways lobbying is regulated around the world. Lobbying is (mostly) above board and transparent; bribery and corruption never are.

@sarabee1995 I'm saying it's no exception when it comes to being infiltrated by the mafia, not in a general sense; I'm no defender of the USSR political system let alone modern day Russia's pathetic imitation of it (minus for the different ideological alignment). The concept of Kleptocracy isn't something new nor unique/specific to the USSR system, let alone coined for it, the term was already in use in the first quarter of the 1800s to describe Spain(!). Philippines' Ferdinand Marcos regime, to name another, is a perfect example of a kleptocratic regime, a right/far-right one that has nothing to do with USSR-era socialism/communism.

Yes, I agree, I think the reasons for the current Russian sh*tshow in Ukraine are multiple; the fact Ukraine is moving towards a west-type democracy government system as opposed to becoming a new Belarus certainly is* one.

I know, not really equating them, just saying they're both ways with which criminal organizations, individuals and hostile foreign actors can successfully manipulate an elected government.

* edit: "is" not "isn't", my bad