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A world beyond Capitalism

Every day, capitalism proves that it is absolutely indifferent to human flourishing, or life, and therefore it really shouldn’t be a surprise that so many of the grotesque and monstrous phenomena of our society — inequality, racism, misogyny, imperialism, ecological catastrophe, mass extinction, mass unnecessary death — are inextricable from capitalism.

The demand for a system that prioritizes human need over profit is a demand for the end of capitalism. We can debate what that might look like, but if we take seriously the idea that the only way to get to a world fit to live in is to get beyond capitalism, we have to move beyond the “common sense” — which is to say, the deadening propaganda — that it is “obviously” impossible to have anything other than capitalism.

Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto’s unremitting insistence on the dynamics of class history that got us here, and its ruthless denaturalizing and questioning of supposedly eternal truths, all in the service of liberation, is profoundly important.

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ZamZam · 26-30, M

You do know that the communists are the biggest murderer in history? When Lenin took power they killed millions just because they didn't "fit" the new society.
Hitler and the nazis were nothing compared to the communists.

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pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M

@ZamZam That is correct. However, it isn't much spoken about because the holocaust is what historians call a "foundational myth", an event by which we draw our values, place in the world, in this case a foundational event for how the west should be run, based on the idea that le nazis were bad and we don't want anything like that to happen, again. And at the same time we allow communist ideas to run rampant as they are easy to present as being well intentioned. And once you start noticing how bad communism is, and how the same values are arising in the west, it then makes you question who really were the good guys during world war 2, and then fingers start getting pointed at people still causing issues today, and ideas that bring humanity down - both of which don't get much attention because give it any attention and you are a nazi and nazis are evil.

ZamZam · 26-30, M

@pianoplayingsteve The "problem" is that the nazis lost the war and the communists were with the winners and it is the winners that write the history. The nazis killed around 20 million people (not counting allied soldiers or civilians, but people that got murdered). The communists has killed around 100 millions during the 20th century.

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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@ZamZam Lol no. That is just cold war bullshit. You are not going to win the childish body count game.

And nice job outing yourself in advance as a nazi apologist. We know know to ignore you. lol

Gloomy · F

@ZamZam Yes imagine the Nazis had written history would have been so much better right. Evil communists liberating concentration Camps just so they could pretend to be good guys.

Gloomy · F

@pianoplayingsteve [quote] the same values are arising in the west, [/quote]

Where do you see communist values arising in the west on a large scale? Please don't tell me you call stuff like welfare communist.

[quote]it then makes you question who really were the good guys during world war 2 [/quote]

Complaining people could call you a Nazi while making Nazi talking points.

ZamZam · 26-30, M

@Gloomy Communists had their own camps that killed millions. Only an uneducated idiot thinks that communists are good.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@ZamZam Citation needed. And a vague whataboutism is all you have?

basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M

@ZamZam the Soviets had gulags. That's not the same as death camps built to wipe out an entire ethnic or racial group.

I'm not saying the Soviets were great, but to claim they're worse than the Nazis is ridiculous.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@basilfawlty89 Random but somewhat related question. Outside the country there seems to be alot of implication at least that the white Boer population in SA are pretty sympathetic to the third reich and their ideas. I am speaking to the Farmlands "documentary" a few years back and a few other things I stumbled upon. As someone who lives there would you say that is accurate or overblown? Is that fairly common or did they just go out of their way to find a handful of nutters?

basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I wouldn't so most Afrikaners, but a substantial amount. Especially in more rural areas. The AWB which is a far right terrorist organisation actively modelled their logo and flag after the Nazis. During WWII, there were a lot of proto-apartheid Nazis. They called them the Ossewa-Brandwag (Oxwagon Division). They dressed like that Nazis too, just with grey shirts. Many of them became a part of the National Party which implemented Apartheid.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@basilfawlty89 Just did a bit more reading on the Oxwagon Division. Sounds like alot of far right groups throughout history they offered a reactionary far right "solution" to the Afrikaners losing their independence from the British Empire just 30 ish years before and gave them a scapegoat.

And it seems the Germans were very happy to exploit that.

I figured I would ask because in the modern era when people like Lauren Southern say this is a popular ideology in the country my immediate thought is "citation needed."

basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow oh God, no. It's a minority of people who believe in the whole Volkstaat/Boerestaat idea. Most South Africans, white included, don't want a white ethnostate.

SW-User

@basilfawlty89 @PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Communists weren't even the biggest murderers. That's Western Capitalist propaganda. Everyone claiming communism is evil likely know nothing about the millions of people killed in the name of anti-communism...not to mention colonialism. Yet that never counts. 🤔

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@SW-User Oh absolutely. And I have been "debating" with some who want to invalidate all the accomplishments of Marxists because it didn't meet their utopian definitions of how a government and economy should be run.

Gloomy · F

@SW-User Anti-Communism, Colonialism and Feudalism like Russia under the Tsar all had unimaginable death tolls. Claiming communists are the biggest murderers in history is just plain ignorance.
Especially the US with their history and even recent history have no right to act all high and mighty.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Gloomy Anti communists who play this game can be quite comical sometimes. I mean shit I saw one claim that to be true would have meant Stalin depopulated all of the USSR including himself to come up with the number they threw out. lol It literally came out to the entire population of the country at the time.

ZamZam · 26-30, M

@Gloomy Why don't you move to North Korea so you can live in a real Communist world with all it's glory! That would be better than sound like a total uneducated idiot!
You know that Lenin was responsible for 5 millions death. He created the Cheka secret police that killed anyone who wasn't as they wanted. Women, children didn't matter. Entire villages were killed to state examples.

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Gloomy · F

@ZamZam North Korea is a monarchy that has replaced Marxist ideology with Juche quite a while ago.
People died? In a civil war? I am shocked

Real atrocities have been committed in the name of anti-communism. Like the
Mỹ Lai massacre.

pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M

@Gloomy Which pales in comparison to the soviet genocides.

basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M

@pianoplayingsteve which Soviet genocide?

The only thing that remotely resembles genocide would be the Holodomor. Before the Soviets, Russisnd weren't exactly cuddly bunnies towards their minorities. Ask the Circassians and Crimean Tatars.

pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M

@basilfawlty89 Yes, the holodomor. Which makes just about anything else pale in comparison, and complaining "oh but the russians did some bad stuff in the past, too". Every group has done something to every other group, but that doesn't justify whatsoever anything on the scale or viciousness of the holodomor.

basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M

@pianoplayingsteve but you justify the Holocaust?

There's nothing in communism that requires genocide. Nazism requires genocide for the Lebensraum of the Aryan race.

pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M

@basilfawlty89 How do I justify the holocaust?

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