Would getting rid of Trump make America better for its citizens in material terms?

@Northwest: [quote]The hillbillies who voted for Trump[/quote]

This is a big problem I have with American liberals. I know you are a genuine progressive and of the left but I cannot agree with classist insults of people who disagree with you. The attack on the liberal elite (though based on hypocrisy - because it is used to support the elite) is given substance by the idea that liberal intellectual types look down on the working class. UKIP used the same thing here.

I have a lot to agree with you on general politics. The logic and knowledge displayed by your arguments are strong but you can't win friends by calling people uneducated or hillbillies. Disagree with them and make them an economic offer. You won;t persuade them all but you will earn the respect of some.

@Burnley123: Oh, but I meant what I said. There are two (maybe three) types of people who voted for Trump:

1. The hillbillies. They are not necessarily uneducated, but they are racist xenophobes, and elites/isolationists in their way right. Perhaps you get your ideas on what a hillbilly is from watching reruns of the Beverly Hillbillies, but when I see a Rush Limbaugh, or a Donald Trump, I see a hillbilly. There is no point in being nice, polite or arguing facts with them. These folks have power, and use it on regular basis, much like the robber barons of the mid to late 19th century in the US.

2. Those who picked him over Hillary, because they believed the lies, or whatever. There's a way to reason with these folks, but they don't really hold the power, and the best approach here, is dialog, as slow as it may take. My best friend, and executor of my estate is in this class. He's educated at MIT and Wharton. We have our weekly lunches and debate things, but he's not yet convinced that he's made the wrong decision.

3. The uneducated. Not too many people choose to be uneducated. It's typically an accident of birth (to the wrong family, wrong country, wrong social class, wrong neighborhood, etc.). Who knows what they might have become, had it not been for that accident of birth. I'm not going to talk down to them, because my accident of birth, put me where I am today. As a progressive, I would like to level the playing field, so their kids could have a shot at a better life, and will always argue that the world is NOT a zero sum game, and do it without making them feel patronized.

So, back to #1, and because we're in the middle of fire season on the West Coast, the only way to fight a forest fire, is with fire. Rolling over, IMHO, is only going to make them stronger, as they will never accept dialog or reason, in the same way a dictator would not.

@Burnley123: Woah. You're not an American? And you're speaking about American issues without having the context of living here? I didn't know that.
Sort of wish I hadn't taken the time to respond the way I did.
Hope you read what Northwest just shared. He's right on the nut.

@Northwest: [quote]Perhaps you get your ideas on what a hillbilly is from watching reruns of the Beverly Hillbillies[/quote]

Fair enough actually. I think I had you wrong and I apologise.

@Burnley123: Unfortunately, this is partially why Hillary lost the election. The perception that the left is aloof and condescending. IQ is not something people can work hard on, and we're not all created equal.

The "accident of birth" is also something people cannot choose, but we can all co-exist in an egalitarian society.

The American left, has adopted the attitude "when they go low, we go high". While I truly believe that you get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar, at some point, when you continue putting the honey out, and the only takers are yellow jackets, the only thing we're doing, is enabling the yellow jackets.

It's a fine balance, so I believe that we should have a selective approach, rooted in empathy, but fully aware that we're seen by the predators as sheep.

When I run into someone who is not a racist, misogynist, xenophobe asshole, dialog is my choice. When I run into someone who's attacking me, because I support "child slave colonies" on Mars, and they believe it, because they heard it on Thursday on the Alex Jones show (and you may think I'm making this up, but I am not), then I may not so patient.