Should Scotland become independent?

Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish First Minister and Scottish National Party (SNP) leader has just announced that Scotland will be having a second referendum. This follows hot on the heals of the last referendum but she believes that Brexit (which a majority of Scotland voted against) gives her a fresh mandate to do this.

As a left-wing Englishmen, my own thoughts on this are somewhat conflicted. The political argument for independence is something that I have a lot of sympathy for and indeed some of the English left support Scottish independence. Scotland has a social democratic majority and hates being ruled by the more Conservative England, as do I. The selfish part of me wants the most anti-Tory part of our country to stay and help build a left alternative from within the UK. However, the Labour Party is miles away from power and if Scotland could successfully form a left-Scandanavian state to the north of us, then their good examples could show us a better way.

Is this likely to end well though? Scotland has economic strengths but is dependent on oil, which has halved in value globally. In addition, the Scots would either need to join the European single currency area, which is increasingly neo-liberal and increasingly disintegrating itself; or stick with a shadow pound, which would leave them at the behest of The Bank of England. I am no fan of single currencies with separate Governments anyway, because national economies are rarely that compatible with each other and when the s**t hits the fan, its always the weakest who get screwed. Look at Ireland and southern Europe as examples of this happening nearby.

All in all, I understand the temptation for Scotland to leave the union but I would not back it if I lived there. It would make the country poorer and would leave them economically vulnerable. However, I am no fan of UK politics in general and if they do vote to leave I very much hope that I am wrong.

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SW-User

I think people have to be brave and put the short term economics to one side. If people have a deep lying desire for self determination then they should vote for it. In the long term i think it's nonsense to say Scotland couldn't be a viable state. Look at similar sized neighbours, Ireland, Norway, Denmark. As an Englishman living in Scotland it does feel like a foreign country, and it's not just because i don't understand the language. It's always had separate legal and education systems, it's a far more open and inclusive place than England. On the other side, what's the prospect of remaining in the UK, continued declined and neglect from Westminster. I share your concerns about the political future for a conservative dominated England, but it's not going to affect the way i vote. On a personal level I work for a company based in England who's business is closely linked to EU regulations, so some interesting years ahead.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

I'm a northerner living in London.

As I say, if they vote yes I would want them to succeed. Its not my heart against the project but the head. For me, the numbers don't add up and where your Parliament resides does not affect the food on the table.

SW-User

@Burnley123: I think the numbers would add up in the long term

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Onecharmingman: It is really hard to say. On one hand the argument is now weaker because of oil prices, on the other hand Brexit makes the argument stronger. If Britain becomes a poorer right-wing tax haven state in the Brexit aftermath then well...

SW-User

@Burnley123: To be honest at the moment I'd be quite surprised if there was a yes vote. Although it would be interesting to see how the EU citizens vote faced with an uncertain post Brexit future in the UK. I still think there is a possibility that May refuses to sanction it, then things could get messy. Poll tax riots plus!

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Onecharmingman: For me this can very much succeed because of the arguments. The biggest argument against Scots Indy was economic uncertainty but the SNP can shoot back that hard-Brexit means that anyway.

Tory Government ministers will do more harm than good and Labour is too weak and divided. Corbyn may be liked but would struggle to sell the idea of a plausible left-wing UK. Kezia Dugdale is a transparent careerist as well as being uniquely useless. Ruth Davidson is quite strong but is a Tory and is compromised by the Tory hard-Brexit strategy.

If I was betting, I would bet on a Yes vote.

SW-User

@Burnley123: The no campaign is considerably weekends by labours disappearance from Scottish politics. No prospect of Gordon Browns great clunking fist this time. To avoid being hypocritical, i would apply the same logic that i think should have been applied to the Brexit vote. If you want to make a significant, irreversible change to the way a country is run the onus should be on the leave party to get a decisive majority, not just a simple majority of the people who vote. Won't happen though. There's a good video from Richard Dawkins doing the rounds that sums up my view on Brexit completely.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Onecharmingman: Yes I've seen that.