Pretty new here, was wondering, do you support any political party? Why so?

Boooooo 😂

Cool. I don't really know where to stand with Labour . They are more likely to be elected than most other leftist parties just because of the history and all but it is so divided at the moment it seems somewhat all over the place with the Blairites trying to undermine Corbyn at every opportunity. Even if they did win a General election, the MPs have been shown to break the whip so many times, I feel they would be unreliable.

^^ Essentially what I said😂.

@sevco2012: I can't disagree. I joined because of Corbyn but changing Labour is a hard slog. I am open to ideas for easier ways to change UK politics but I don't think there is one.*

@thatscottishguy: *Outside Scotland ;-)

@Burnley123: Corbyn is something of a strange character. He is an elder statesman when it comes to British politics who shared the backbenches with stalwarts like Tony Benn and George Galloway for many a year and yet much of his base comes from a group of young "liberals". Young people are of course important as the next generation of voters but I feel that in order to appease elements within this bloc he might be alienating traditional Blue collar Labour voters who are being hoodwinked by the likes of UKIP.

@sevco2012: Yes you have some good analysis. What it ideally would need is someone with Corbyn's principles as Bernie Sanders style political savvy. You can win back some UKIP supporters by making them an economic offer. Pandering on immigration won't work because we will never beat the right on that and it would lose us more votes than it would gain.

They aren't quite a single issue party, UKIP, but leaving the EU and taking back control (particularly of our borders) was their key messages.

Now that we seem to be on our way to leaving, and with Mr Nuttall's lies undoubtedly doing quite a bit of damage among traditional blue collar communities it is up to the left to propose a sensible immigration policy that ensures that immigrants aren't brought in to undermine homegrown workers. Take the EU and consider when it was Germany, France, Britain Belgium etc(the advanced Western technological nations), migration was less of an issue because, on the whole, these countries had similar levels of pay and working conditions leading to less hostility between nationalities.

Much like with the Islam issue, if the left ignores legitimate concerns about immigration, it only open the doors for far right groups who appear much more welcoming than the "leftists" who brand any concerns as Racist etc. I'm pretty sure Corbyn has identified this before but with the party in such a tumultuous state it might not be at the forefront of his mind at the moment.

@sevco2012: But are the concerns about immigration legitimate? Show me the evidence that they depress working conditions.

I have read into this and (at most) it affects only certain industries. Stopping immigration, or even substantially reducing it, is impossible without a police state.

Also if you did, the wages would not rise under the Tories or UKIP.

It seems that the main logical reasons that employers would hire immigrants would be because they :(1)undercut native workers, (2) foreigners are better at the job, (3) they are willing to do jobs the natives are unwilling to do.

In the market, supply and demand are important and with the supply of jobs drying up with automation and a shift from a manufacturing to a mall economy based on consumerism and services. This means that jobs are precarious because so many chase so few positions; it is easier for bosses to hire and fire at will, especially with the help of their allies ,the Tories, changing legislation. If you also allow for net migration, the labour pool is larger once again and labour costs and solidarity are diluted.

Undoubtedly the likes of UKIP et al do overemphasise migration and its effects while the media can use it as a tactic to cause infighting but it must be thought of as a tool in the repertoire of the elite. As you quite rightly point out, though, UKIP and the Tories are no friend of the working class and any advantages of Brexit will not be evenly shared by the Tories.

@sevco2012: Some good points but the theory of wage undercutting loses out because immigration also produces economic growth. In addition we have a declining working age population.

Automation is a huge problem though and I agree on that

Some jobs are quite monotonous, tedious and arduous and for me automation ought to be used here, but we also risk losing time honoured traditional crafts with the spectre of automation. That's why I fundamentally oppose a universal basic income given to people irrespective of whether they work or not. This will undoubtedly cause social conflict as some are seen as scroungers but the issue is systemic. Instead we should aim for a full employment economy where everyone who can work should be given the opportunity to.

Currently in the UK over a fifth of the productive forces are sitting unused like factories, land and materials and yet we cannot pair those with the 5% who are unemployed apparently?

@sevco2012: Yes I am sceptical about UBI for the same reasons. I would aim for full employment, reducing the working week and lowering the retirement ago.

Ubi would mean a two class society with productive and unproductive sectors in conflict and resentment. Also work gives people dignity and purpose.

@sevco2012: I am adding you as a friend btw because you have some good analysis.

^^Sounding a bit like Weber on that last bit. Tut Tut.

@thatscottishguy: Lol. You are not wrong. Ubi would create divisions within the prolatariat and benefit the bourgeoisie. Weber and Marx are not always mutually incompatible. But no, I'm not gonna write your essay. 😝

My essay was done long ago ty and I'm tutting bc Weber was a proddy loving prick.😂

@thatscottishguy: lol. You need more Protestant work ethic yourself.

Fuck right off😂