@Roundandroundwego That is the level of nonsense these days.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I agree that sanctions largely do nothing, but that itself is evidence that this is not “collective punishment”. Russia is a big country and can take care of itself. A few countries saying they will no longer do business did nothing to stop the war, and is only an inconvenience for Russia citizens.

Whether this action is beneficial to American businesses is not my point. That is Trump logic.

My point is to evaluate whether doing business with a traditional adversary will actually help our problem in a meaningful way or is it just a cheap ploy to win votes with little relief for US citizens. Is Russia’s participation in said deal an attempt to influence US elections, or do they only care about money?

As Munster pointed out - it may not be “collusion” because it it out in the open. But to be a cheap trick to win votes - it kinda has to be so Trump can claim success.

@trollslayer Um no. whether something is collective punishment or not is not magically determined by whether a country is able to survive in spite of it. And lets not pretend that it is just a few companies not doing business with them. Russia is the most sanctioned country on earth. The goal was to completely destroy the country and reduce it to grinding poverty and starvation. Because that is how it has been used for decades and the US went nuclear on this.

At least Madeline Albright was honest that starving Iraqui children was the entire point.



Actually it does matter. The US in now in a position of being the net loser while trying to destroy a country economically. And this happened long before Trump.



And again. Russia is the second largest producer of diesel. Your other option is risk a literal famine to pass an arbitrary morality test.


And the USA got itself in this mess. Russia didn't start a stupid war with Iran and create a global fuel crisis by casting magical spells on Trump.

It is not collusion because you get fuel from the people who produce fuel.


If the US was facing a grain shortage they would not be approaching the UAE.

@Carla Do you know Donnie’s Puppet Master,
Donnie’s Puppet Master?

Do you know Donnie’s Puppet Master,
Donnie’s Puppet Master
Who lives in Moscow?

@MoveAlong Not so much what

As WHO caused the problem…

@SumKindaMunster One other thing : If trollslayer admits that the current arrangement with Russia is not ,in fact , collusion ,then where does that leave his opening statement about the Muller " investigation"? ( FYI : It was not actually a " witch hunt " but a setup .In an actually witch hunt ,the authorities,mistaken as they may be ,actually believe that witches exist .The intelligence agencies that had the information that started the investigation KNEW it was all B.S ,but treated it like it was real as a means to get at Trump .It's like an witch trial where the Inquisitors know that witches aren't real ,but pretend that they are since they just want to see the accused put to death .A little off the point ,perhaps ,but still worth pointing out .)

@DavidT8899 what information was BS?