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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
The ideals expressed by the founding fathers has never been truly grasped and too often denigrated. While I realize that their lofty vision will never be realized on earth their earthly utopian vision is vastly superior to any other earthly utopian vision in the marketplace of ideas. Trump holds to the founders' ideals. Obama sought to destroy them. I support Trump over Obama.
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
If the founders had their way, citizens wouldn't be able to vote in presidential elections at all. You were never meant to cast ballots for presidential candidates, but only to elect your elector. Electors were intended to be highly educated and well stationed individuals from each district, independent of political parties and foreign influence, who could deliberate which candidate most embodied the needs of the nation at the time. But I'm willing to bet over 99% of Americans don't even know the name of the elector in their district, and that person most certainly is not free from party influence and there was probably very little, if any deliberation among them. Hamilton and Madison even proposed an amendment after the electoral college failed to function as intended, but it didn't come to pass.
The original constitution also permitted slavery. So I don't know what counts as a lofty utopian vision, for you.
The original constitution also permitted slavery. So I don't know what counts as a lofty utopian vision, for you.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
Not at all. The ideals expressed by the founding fathers is superior to other ideals. Is it perfect? No. Never said it was. Simply that it was vastly superior especially when held up against the crap that Obama holds near and dear. Obama wants to re-institute slavery on a massive scale by making everyone completely dependent on the state. I reject that ideal as being unworkable and from experience realize that it will only increase human suffering.
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
@hippyjoe1955: If that's how you see it, I don't see it being any different under Trump. I mean, he promised jobs and cheap universal insurance too. How does the government give people that? Being friendlier to businesses? That's not what his 40% import taxes are for. Those prices will just get passed on to consumers. A 40% tariff is going to make a Chinese worker's cost go from $2 and hour, to $2.80 an hour, while a US worker still requires $7.25 an hour minimum. The plastic crap everyone consumes so much of will still come from China, it'll just be a bit more expensive than before.
How's he going to make insurance less expensive? Asking nicely? Maybe he's going to force insurance companies to sell for less. Certainly not business friendly to them. There's the insurance across state lines thing, but that's actually already legal. I don't know why people ever thought it wasn't. If an insurance company has a license to do business in a state, they're free to do so regardless of how many other states they also do business in. Unless he intended to trample on the states and override their independent licensing requirements.
Anyway you slice it, people still want things from Trump, asking him to use the government to give them something. Same sh*t, different POTUS.
How's he going to make insurance less expensive? Asking nicely? Maybe he's going to force insurance companies to sell for less. Certainly not business friendly to them. There's the insurance across state lines thing, but that's actually already legal. I don't know why people ever thought it wasn't. If an insurance company has a license to do business in a state, they're free to do so regardless of how many other states they also do business in. Unless he intended to trample on the states and override their independent licensing requirements.
Anyway you slice it, people still want things from Trump, asking him to use the government to give them something. Same sh*t, different POTUS.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
Actually what Trump promised was less government interference in people's lives so they can have jobs and insurance. What Obama wanted was the government to regulate people's live so they were dependent on the government. If you can't see the difference then you are hardly worthy of debate.
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
@hippyjoe1955: I know that's what people think he said, but I'm asking how? Like I said, insurance companies can already sell across state lines. That was never an issue. How's he going to make that suddenly fix everything if it hasn't already? And besides, what good would being able to buy insurance from Alaska do you if you live in Texas and all the doctors and hospitals you might go to are in Texas? Now your insurer has to negotiate with doctors and hospitals in Texas that they probably don't have preexisting arrangements with, which costs time and money, the avoidance of which was the entire reason for creating insurance networks in the first place, so now goes out the window. In fact, insurers would have to negotiate in every place in the US unless they just refused to serve some areas, which is exactly what they do now. Or if the insurer or policy is unreliable, what if healthcare providers refuse to accept it? You'd be free to buy insurance from anyone, but would that mean that all healthcare providers have to accept it? We'd have to have some kind of universal policy or regulation to ensure that...omg government intervention! And then there's those personal health savings accounts, which is just a way of saying, you pay for it, or the lack of an insurance plan. That'd be fine if it didn't cost over $7,000 to administer a dose of antivenin made in Mexico for $100. Yup, family of four on a $45K income? Ouch, better tighten your belts if you got a scorpion sting.
And how's he going to make companies hire more Americans by interfering less? Is that what the high import taxes are? Less interference? I guess he did say he'd relax regulations on Wall Street. Whoohoo, big win for the blue-collar man there. Then there's unleashing the US energy industry, the one already suffering from a glut of supply on the market. Oh, and there's this gem, right off his website.
"Every income group receives a tax cut under the Trump plan, with millions more being removed from the income tax rolls and low-income Americans paying no income tax at all."
I guess that would be considered less government interference. But I do remember hearing a lot of people whining about Americans who pay no federal income taxes. Trump promised to make millions more of them. What was that number at? 45%? Let's see if Trump can get us up to 60% of non federal income tax payers, yeah! Go big! Who needs a middle class when there's so much room at the bottom?
But really, how's he going to make a system work that already didn't work before? Relaxing non-existent restrictions on insurance sales? Telling people to pay for it on their own? Forcing companies to do unprofitable things under threat of extra taxes? Other than deregulating Wall Street and making fewer tax payers, where does he actually back off to make things better?
And how's he going to make companies hire more Americans by interfering less? Is that what the high import taxes are? Less interference? I guess he did say he'd relax regulations on Wall Street. Whoohoo, big win for the blue-collar man there. Then there's unleashing the US energy industry, the one already suffering from a glut of supply on the market. Oh, and there's this gem, right off his website.
"Every income group receives a tax cut under the Trump plan, with millions more being removed from the income tax rolls and low-income Americans paying no income tax at all."
I guess that would be considered less government interference. But I do remember hearing a lot of people whining about Americans who pay no federal income taxes. Trump promised to make millions more of them. What was that number at? 45%? Let's see if Trump can get us up to 60% of non federal income tax payers, yeah! Go big! Who needs a middle class when there's so much room at the bottom?
But really, how's he going to make a system work that already didn't work before? Relaxing non-existent restrictions on insurance sales? Telling people to pay for it on their own? Forcing companies to do unprofitable things under threat of extra taxes? Other than deregulating Wall Street and making fewer tax payers, where does he actually back off to make things better?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Xuan12: try reading Wealth of Nations. You can find a copy in the library.
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
@hippyjoe1955: Adam Smith, middle school material. The invisible hand of the free market regulating itself, but threatened by monopolies, tax preferences, lobbyists, and privileged classes.
Not sure how that squares with the heavy import taxes and elimination of millions of tax payers. Also doesn't really bode well for nominating Exxon Mobil's CEO for Secretary of State. Sounds like the lobbyists win that one.
Not sure how that squares with the heavy import taxes and elimination of millions of tax payers. Also doesn't really bode well for nominating Exxon Mobil's CEO for Secretary of State. Sounds like the lobbyists win that one.