Do you believe Russia would have invaded Ukraine if Donald Trump was president at the time?
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CountScrofula · 41-45, M
I genuinely don't and I remember predicting a war with Russia when Hillary Clinton ran against Trump. We just got it under Biden when he got in.
Ukraine is in a tug of war between NATO and Russia and has slowly flipped over to the EU/NATO side of things, losing Russia a subject state that they could rely upon.
To be clear, Russia is an evil warmongering state. But Russia didn't invade Ukraine apropos of nothing, they invaded after a decade of work from NATO/EU to move Ukraine into their sphere of influence. The push from Biden to get Ukraine into NATO was what triggered the war.
But ultimately, Russia are the ones who invaded a sovereign state and are killing civilians. I think it is insane for people who see the problems in NATO to just cheer for Russia.
Sometimes the only good guys are the innocents trying to stay safe in a horrible war.
Ukraine is in a tug of war between NATO and Russia and has slowly flipped over to the EU/NATO side of things, losing Russia a subject state that they could rely upon.
To be clear, Russia is an evil warmongering state. But Russia didn't invade Ukraine apropos of nothing, they invaded after a decade of work from NATO/EU to move Ukraine into their sphere of influence. The push from Biden to get Ukraine into NATO was what triggered the war.
But ultimately, Russia are the ones who invaded a sovereign state and are killing civilians. I think it is insane for people who see the problems in NATO to just cheer for Russia.
Sometimes the only good guys are the innocents trying to stay safe in a horrible war.
ItsMeMorgue · 46-50, F
@CountScrofula I was about to jump in and say that that doesn't make Russia the good guys, and then I saw where you already said that.
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newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@CountScrofula russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 - russia's war of greed and aggression against Ukraine has been going on for eleven years.
That sad, timid, old man in his Throne Room has nothing to do with any of this apart from having aligned the US with russia and supported russia every step of the way. He is simply irrelevant - his own doing.
He's currently jumping up and down trying to be noticed in case there is any credit he can swoop in and steal from the people who deserve it (there won't be - the russian list of demands from 2022 (the one they just gave Witkoff the clown) is going nowhere
That sad, timid, old man in his Throne Room has nothing to do with any of this apart from having aligned the US with russia and supported russia every step of the way. He is simply irrelevant - his own doing.
He's currently jumping up and down trying to be noticed in case there is any credit he can swoop in and steal from the people who deserve it (there won't be - the russian list of demands from 2022 (the one they just gave Witkoff the clown) is going nowhere
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@CountScrofula There is no such thing as NATO/EU.
The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation is a political and military agreement between the USA and many European nations, irrespective of EU membership.
The European Union is a political, economic and trading bloc of about two dozen separate - and very different - nations solely on the Western European continent, irrespective of NATO membership.
Two totally separate entities for different purposes.
Ukraine wants to join the EU, which worries Russia perhaps because it might affect trade between them. The EU is holding off until Ukraine solves her own internal problems including corruption, not connected with Russia's invasion.
She may or may not also want to join NATO, which frightens Russia because they think it a military threat - only Russia being allowed to threaten the neighbours. Such membership application is not possible from a country at war.
The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation is a political and military agreement between the USA and many European nations, irrespective of EU membership.
The European Union is a political, economic and trading bloc of about two dozen separate - and very different - nations solely on the Western European continent, irrespective of NATO membership.
Two totally separate entities for different purposes.
Ukraine wants to join the EU, which worries Russia perhaps because it might affect trade between them. The EU is holding off until Ukraine solves her own internal problems including corruption, not connected with Russia's invasion.
She may or may not also want to join NATO, which frightens Russia because they think it a military threat - only Russia being allowed to threaten the neighbours. Such membership application is not possible from a country at war.
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CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@G7J2O Dude a condition of peace throughout this war is Ukraine never join NATO and one of the key reasons the war is still ongoing.
Russia are evil but their self interest is obvious here.
Russia are evil but their self interest is obvious here.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@CountScrofula Thanks to putin's bungling russia's border with NATO has now more than doubled 😂
ElwoodBlues · M
@CountScrofula says
Essentially, Ukraine agreed to give up all its nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for safety from a U.S. or Russian invasion. Russia's invasion of Ukraine violates that treaty. And as a signatory to that 1994 Budapest Memorandum, the U.S. has a definite interest in righting Putin's current wrongs.
Again, given this history, do you have any confidence whatsoever that Russia will honor its end of a treaty, even if conditions are met?
a condition of peace throughout this war is ...
Do you have any confidence whatsoever that Russia will honor its end of a treaty, even if conditions are met? Let me remind you of a three-way treaty known as the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.Essentially, Ukraine agreed to give up all its nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for safety from a U.S. or Russian invasion. Russia's invasion of Ukraine violates that treaty. And as a signatory to that 1994 Budapest Memorandum, the U.S. has a definite interest in righting Putin's current wrongs.
In the final version of the deal, Russia promised not to attack Ukraine. While the U.S. and the U.K. assured Ukraine they would aid if it was attacked by Russia, that promised aid did not guarantee military support like a NATO country would receive.
In 2009, Russia and the U.S. announced that the assurances in the Budapest Memorandum would continue to remain in effect in the future.
https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/global-conflicts/ukraine-agreed-to-give-up-nukes-in-exchange-for-safety-from-russia-invasion-attack-budapest-memorandum-treaty/536-8748a51f-10ee-47f0-be30-b4088750ee44In 2009, Russia and the U.S. announced that the assurances in the Budapest Memorandum would continue to remain in effect in the future.
Again, given this history, do you have any confidence whatsoever that Russia will honor its end of a treaty, even if conditions are met?