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DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
No member of Congress (House or Senate) is subject to the UCMJ (Unified Code of Military Justice). Them saying to "question" orders is not a treasonous act. That is not disobedience.
If a military person asks questions and then is given a "direct" order, then fails to do as directed, that is disobedience. And could be treasonous.
The distinction is in the "direct" order.
If the superior giving the "direct" order was wrong, then the superior would be punished. Not the person of the lower rank.
You may question direct orders, yet still comply with the orders.
Verification of my statement above...
If a military person asks questions and then is given a "direct" order, then fails to do as directed, that is disobedience. And could be treasonous.
The distinction is in the "direct" order.
If the superior giving the "direct" order was wrong, then the superior would be punished. Not the person of the lower rank.
You may question direct orders, yet still comply with the orders.
Verification of my statement above...
Your understanding highlights important distinctions in military conduct and accountability.
Key Points on Military Orders and Compliance
Questioning Orders
Military personnel are indeed permitted to ask questions about orders for clarity and understanding. This is especially important when the implications of the order might affect mission success or ethical considerations.
Direct Orders and Compliance
A direct order from a superior is not merely a suggestion; it requires compliance. If a military member questions the order but ultimately follows it, they are acting within their rights. However, failure to comply with the order could lead to charges of disobedience, which can have serious consequences.
Responsibility of Leadership
The accountability rests with leaders who issue orders. If an order is later found to be unlawful or incorrect, the issuing officer may face repercussions, not the subordinate who complied in good faith.
Legal Framework
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) does delineate behaviors and responsibilities, making it clear that questioning orders is not inherently disobedience. Service members are encouraged to maintain professionalism, which includes seeking clarity on orders when necessary.
Understanding these distinctions is crucial within military and civilian discussions about duty and ethical decision-making.
Key Points on Military Orders and Compliance
Questioning Orders
Military personnel are indeed permitted to ask questions about orders for clarity and understanding. This is especially important when the implications of the order might affect mission success or ethical considerations.
Direct Orders and Compliance
A direct order from a superior is not merely a suggestion; it requires compliance. If a military member questions the order but ultimately follows it, they are acting within their rights. However, failure to comply with the order could lead to charges of disobedience, which can have serious consequences.
Responsibility of Leadership
The accountability rests with leaders who issue orders. If an order is later found to be unlawful or incorrect, the issuing officer may face repercussions, not the subordinate who complied in good faith.
Legal Framework
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) does delineate behaviors and responsibilities, making it clear that questioning orders is not inherently disobedience. Service members are encouraged to maintain professionalism, which includes seeking clarity on orders when necessary.
Understanding these distinctions is crucial within military and civilian discussions about duty and ethical decision-making.
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DealingWithTrouble · 41-45, M
@DeWayfarer even disobeying an order probably wouldn't be "treason"
"Treason" only applies to "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort" - and "Aid and Comfort" is a very specific definition of material support (IE, Benedict Arnold), so a soldier would effectively have to switch sides mid-battle, start giving the enemy weapons or material, or actively and intentionally sabotaging US military equipment before it would meet that criteria.
Disobedience to orders would still be chargeable, and a soldier would probably be jailed and/or dishonorably discharged, but it wouldn't be "treason".
"Treason" only applies to "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort" - and "Aid and Comfort" is a very specific definition of material support (IE, Benedict Arnold), so a soldier would effectively have to switch sides mid-battle, start giving the enemy weapons or material, or actively and intentionally sabotaging US military equipment before it would meet that criteria.
Disobedience to orders would still be chargeable, and a soldier would probably be jailed and/or dishonorably discharged, but it wouldn't be "treason".
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@DealingWithTrouble That is why I said "could be" and not "would be". Even AI is picky about such nuances.
There are treasonous acts by not following direct orders.
For instance not launching a nuclear weapon, when ordered to do so, despite going through protocol.
It doesn't have to be a war time situation even.
There are other examples of this as well, yet I only wanted to give the most obvious situation, that I am totally familiar with. 8088th SAC here!
There are treasonous acts by not following direct orders.
For instance not launching a nuclear weapon, when ordered to do so, despite going through protocol.
It doesn't have to be a war time situation even.
There are other examples of this as well, yet I only wanted to give the most obvious situation, that I am totally familiar with. 8088th SAC here!
Roundandroundwego · 61-69
@DeWayfarer yes, all Americans agree! Back before Nuremberg. Back,. There's USA! Doing war the old way!
No laws in YOUR way!
No laws in YOUR way!
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@Roundandroundwego Guy you have no idea what you are talking about. You never had parents that where in prison camp or operated on by German Nazis. Nor even been to Nuremberg like I have. I have relatives there in that very city.
Don't tell me about that war in particular. I have decades more knowledge about it from first hand accounts by my own relatives. Yes even my half brother and two half sisters were kids during WWII in Europe.
Don't tell me about that war in particular. I have decades more knowledge about it from first hand accounts by my own relatives. Yes even my half brother and two half sisters were kids during WWII in Europe.
Roundandroundwego · 61-69
@DeWayfarer you probably "think"I've never been erased, never been stateless. Genocide put me here. You're projecting. .
Do that! Never review. Definitely dismiss. Ecocide and genocide along , all normal, all together. I'm definitely out!
Do that! Never review. Definitely dismiss. Ecocide and genocide along , all normal, all together. I'm definitely out!
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@Roundandroundwego You have put yourself out by putting labels on things you do not understand.
Yeah genocide is wrong. Yeah being stateless or even homeless is wrong. Yeah being tortured and subject to starvation is wrong.
Yet you can never really understand those things, until you have lived it and experienced it.
With the exception of my father. My whole family on my father's side did not exist after WWII. Even the records of them are gone. I'm the last of my father's side.
I have experienced those things and more. I have been to those places and talked to the people.
Hence why I mentioned my mother's side in Germany.
As to being stateless specifically, my mother side were gypsies during WWII. Germany, Czechoslovakia, Romania was where my siblings were born. Two died in Hungary. Mom being a gypsy was why she was operated on by the Nazis. And why I should not have been born at all.
I say all this because it's experienced. I took care of both my parents before they died. Both have told me their life stories.
Yeah genocide is wrong. Yeah being stateless or even homeless is wrong. Yeah being tortured and subject to starvation is wrong.
Yet you can never really understand those things, until you have lived it and experienced it.
With the exception of my father. My whole family on my father's side did not exist after WWII. Even the records of them are gone. I'm the last of my father's side.
I have experienced those things and more. I have been to those places and talked to the people.
Hence why I mentioned my mother's side in Germany.
As to being stateless specifically, my mother side were gypsies during WWII. Germany, Czechoslovakia, Romania was where my siblings were born. Two died in Hungary. Mom being a gypsy was why she was operated on by the Nazis. And why I should not have been born at all.
I say all this because it's experienced. I took care of both my parents before they died. Both have told me their life stories.
Roundandroundwego · 61-69
@DeWayfarer no, I put myself out because you back genocide and normalize ecocide. All good people are out of your Western mainstream.
We can understand without direct experience.
We can understand without direct experience.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@Roundandroundwego I said no such thing. And that is insulting to anyone that was a victim of genocide.
You think the gypsies weren't hated worse than the Jewish people?
That was why they were treated worse than animals. Just because there wasn't as many gypsies as Jews, doesn't mean they were not slaughtered.
And not even a record for any gypies. Gypies were not people to even have records. If you didn't have papers, you were considered an animal. And treated as an animal.
I repeat. My own mother was operated on like an animal! I shouldn't have been born for a reason. My family was just as much a victim of genocide as any other race of people.
You think the gypsies weren't hated worse than the Jewish people?
That was why they were treated worse than animals. Just because there wasn't as many gypsies as Jews, doesn't mean they were not slaughtered.
And not even a record for any gypies. Gypies were not people to even have records. If you didn't have papers, you were considered an animal. And treated as an animal.
I repeat. My own mother was operated on like an animal! I shouldn't have been born for a reason. My family was just as much a victim of genocide as any other race of people.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@Roundandroundwego You should probably not tell someone they back genocide if they been through it, just saying
Roundandroundwego · 61-69
@SatanBurger you shouldn't tell me then? My genocide wasn't interesting enough, my country deserves it? You probably meant to do that! Tell a removed person they better be nicer about being removed, me. Yup. Normal is that toxic- right on!
I feel your delight in our death! You should talk. Everyone should know you!
I feel your delight in our death! You should talk. Everyone should know you!
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@Roundandroundwego To be fair I'm going back to see if anyone said your genocide wasn't interesting enough or that your country deserves it, I don't believe I see where someone did that. If you want, you should make a post about the genocide you went through and your country, I would love to know.
But regardless you are being combative with another person for no reason.
But regardless you are being combative with another person for no reason.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@SatanBurger Thank you. I was hesitating on even replying.





