Random
Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

No, Mr. President, We Cannot ‘Leave It at That’

By The Editorial Board
New York Times
Nov. 19, 2025

The realities of geopolitics have long required the United States to ally itself with foreign leaders who commit terrible deeds. Defeating foreign threats often requires the help of countries that fall far short of being liberal democracies that respect human rights. Saudi Arabia is a classic example of such a country today. It both has a disturbing human rights record and is a legitimately valuable American partner in countering Iran’s aggressions and building a more stable Middle East.

But working with imperfect partners does not mean that the United States should cover up and lie about their misdeeds, as President Trump did when receiving Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi Arabia’s de facto ruler, in the Oval Office on Tuesday. It was a fawning, cringe-worthy performance that belied America’s more powerful status. It was absolution rather than realpolitik.

Mr. Trump embraced the prince’s implausible claim of innocence in the 2018 murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi citizen and journalist, and berated Mary Bruce, of ABC News, for asking about the killing. The C.I.A. has concluded that the crown prince almost certainly ordered the killing of Mr. Khashoggi, a critic of the prince who was living in self-imposed exile in the United States and was murdered while visiting a Saudi consulate in Turkey. A United Nations investigator and a coalition of nongovernmental organizations reached similar conclusions.

These inquiries noted that Saudi officials offered conflicting accounts of the killing and concealed information about it. Eventually, the kingdom investigated several members of Prince Mohammed’s inner circle for the killing.

The president’s performance was alarming for three main reasons. One, it suggested that the truth was irrelevant, and it discarded the hard work of American intelligence in trying to determine that truth. It continued a long pattern of Mr. Trump lying when it suits his interests.

Two, he whitewashed a brutal human-rights violation — a killing by strangulation, followed by the dismembering and disposal of the body, committed by a team of Saudi operatives. The United States does not have the power to rid the world of human-rights abuses. At its best, though, this country has successfully nudged allies toward better behavior. Mr. Trump, by contrast, signaled this week that foreign despots can eliminate bothersome critics without worry of American disapproval.

Three, the president showed open disdain for the principles of press freedom enshrined in the Constitution. Traditionally, foreign leaders who visit the White House understand that they will not be able to avoid hard questions, as authoritarian leaders can at home. Ms. Bruce, the ABC correspondent, lived up to this tradition with a two-part question about the Trump family’s business dealings in Saudi Arabia and the prince’s role in Mr. Khashoggi’s killing.

Mr. Trump unpersuasively waved away his conflicts of interest before demeaning Mr. Khashoggi — “a lot of people didn’t like that gentleman that you’re talking about” — and defending Prince Mohammed. “He knew nothing about it, and we can leave it at that,” Mr. Trump said. “You don’t have to embarrass our guest by asking a question like that.”

The role of the news media in our democracy is not to flatter foreign leaders or, for that matter, American ones. It is to pose important and sometimes challenging questions and publish the facts. As president, Mr. Trump repeatedly shows contempt for this principle. Over the past week alone, he called Ms. Bruce “a terrible person” and told another female reporter, “Quiet, piggy.” His behavior suggests that he would prefer an American news media that behaves more like Saudi Arabia’s largely muzzled and obsequious media.

The prince is a complicated dictator. He has pushed his country to become more modern and open in important ways, including by expanding women’s rights, reducing the influence of religious hard-liners and diversifying the economy. He also remains an authoritarian. In addition to evidently masterminding the savage killing of Mr. Khashoggi, he regularly jails critics and has overseen a sharp increase in executions for low-level drug offenses. The appropriate role for the United States is to make him uncomfortable about his abuses and push Saudi Arabia toward a freer future.
Top | New | Old
ArishMell · 70-79, M
The difficulty with making Saudi Arabia freer is that its rulers do reflect a generally repressive monoculture, and have themselves to tread very slowly and carefully in instituting reforms.

Nevertheless, the Crown Prince does lead a tyranny, and must have been encouraged by the treatment of journalists by a president who has cultivated a reputation for admiring, even supporting, "strong leaders".

The economic reforms are pragmatic: Saudi Arabia's oil reserves are dwindling and it has for some years been planning for this. It probably derives a sizeable income from the hajj (annual Muslim pilgrimage), and is developing its general tourist industry, although how that might work in the future is hard to tell. A healthy economy does not make a dictatorship more democratic though. It may even help discourage dissent by giving the populace less to complain about.
Northwest · M
@ArishMell Saudi Arabia generates about $350 B in oil sales, add to that the $325B+ its petrochemical industries generate.

The Kingdom generates less than $10 B in Hajj "tourism", and it spends $Bs on maintaining and improving religious sites frequented by pilgrims.

MBS, of course has to worry about the religious hard liners and the latter constitute the majority of Saudis. For instance, his wife has never been seen in public because that might lead to an uprising.

His NOEM project is in financial trouble, and he hopes to use NOEM as the first "credible" source of any significant non-oil business in Saudi Arabia, but he first needs to make it happen and attract people to a promised life of leisure and earthly pleasures, when holding hands with your wife in public, could land someone in jail, or worse.

But the tone deafness of our President is legendary. He's calling a US journalist a bad person and a pig, as part of a discussion around his esteemed guest dismemberment of another journalist, because he did not like his opinions.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Northwest Those figures do not augure well for Saudi Arabia then.

It is not easy to think who might want to visit the country as tourists. It does not seem to have much outside its Muslim-only interests; and many of its citizens might not be very welcoming to more than a very few, very tactful outsiders.

Sufficiently caring Westerners who have visited Saudi Arabia often say they enjoyed a warm welcome good hospitality, they are few and far between and tourism able to make up for that >$300B shortfall would likely be too much.

The Arab states love money and their ideal "tourist" probably is the very wealthy type likely happy to be more or less corralled into carefully-managed enclaves; very luxurious and very expensive but still very controlled. Not the real country.

I reckon China would be the safer and easier for "ordinary" Western visitors - provided they are very careful and accept they are under constant watch.

So if - when - they run out of petroleum, and tourism does not meet their financial expectations... I wonder what the Saudis will do. Or can do.
Northwest · M
@ArishMell I've been to Saudi Arabia once, on a business trip and I would never go back. At least not while its entire social, business and penal system is run by Wahabi Sunni Islam.

I had to list a religion under my visa application - Judaism would be an automatic denial (at the time).

I could only travel on certain roads for non-Muslims.

But most importantly, I had to surrender my passport upon entry, and I could be arrested at any time, wherever I may be, and detailed without charges with no due process (actually kind of what ICE is doing now in the USA).

The Arab states love money and their ideal "tourist" probably is the very wealthy type likely happy to be more or less corralled into carefully-managed enclaves; very luxurious and very expensive but still very controlled

You have the GCCC (Gulf Cooperation Council) states and the rest of the Arab world and the contrast is difficult to explain in a single comment on SW. It ranges from clothing optional beaches in Lebanon, to being forced to wear a Burkini and go to sex segregated beaches in Syria and Kuwait. Even in Lebanon, in the third largest city, women must go to women only beaches, and must wear a Burkini, while in Beirut or the Christian parts, you would be told to vacate the beach if you try to go in a Burkini.
On Tuesday Nov 19, Trump addressed questions about Khashoggi's death, stating, "Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen."

Wow, will the "things happen" defense be deployed in the case of Charlie Kirk's killer??
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
A well argued piece of commentary. So much for the 'failing' description of the NYT so beloved of DJT 9 or so years ago..
Northwest · M
@FreddieUK
So much for the 'failing' description of the NYT so beloved of DJT 9 or so years ago..

Anything he does not agree with, is "failing" or "low rating". He's a reality TV, make believe actor and he proves to the world every single day.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@Northwest Quite so. Let's try 'failing Presidency' and see if it fits.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
Trump had no right to make those statements. His statements have no reality of the truth.

That is all I will say on this.
Strictmichael75 · 61-69, M
Herr King is only interested in making money, nothing else
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
Northwest · M
@RogueLodyte It doesn't look you can absorb what "remain on topic" means. So, if you insist on doing that, AND going the ad hominem route, your comments will be deleted.
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.

 
Post Comment