St. Louis is on a path to bankruptcy. Should it be allowed to sell vacant condemned buildings to make ends meet?

@exchrist I have done a few revamps as long as the building is structurally sound it easy enough with a good architect to repurpose
I don't how much they want for the building. But even a "bad area" can be rejuvenated into a very good and desirable area. It has been pulled off many times.

@Avectoijesuismoi yes it isn’t a difficult process once it’s been initiated.
There are procedural hurdles and red tape aplenty though.
Usually the social “cultural” hurtles are more difficult. Most of the abandoned delinquent and foreclosed buildings in the city I researched are in the poorest most urban minority communities or industrial brown sites. Low income areas are politically avoided. The entire is neglected so rich constituents can be catered to.
Nothing new AND depressing

@Avectoijesuismoi my issue was developers turn the abandoned building into high income housing. That no one can afford $3000 rent apartments in a low income area doesn’t help the poor

@exchrist great reply. the problem isn't just abandoned buildings. it's giving tax-exempt organizations, non profits, and government agencies the highest priority for zoning variances.

in a nearby town we have

- 2 fire departmetns within 3 blocks of each other.

- 2 postal facilities withing 3 blocks of each other.

- a high school AND a school district administration building within 3 blocks of each other.

- the conversion of an unused downtown commuter rail station into a railway museum

- the preservation of a superfund toxic waste site as a "park" (it was formerly a paper manufacturing facility, and vast quantiles of chemicals were discharged into a stream, and leached into the ground)

- a new public library - twice the size of the old one - is replacing the previous library which was only 40 years old. This required the acquisition of more land, which is now off the tax rolls.

@SusanInFlorida certainly it is a multifaceted and complex issue. Local priorities need to be assessed and adjusted. Politicing gets the 3rd post office built instead of modernizing a 40 year old school. Capitalism prioritizes the acquisition of a new car over improving public transport despite there being no parking.
Equal taxation is the simplest approach tax breaks should go to the have nots instead they go to the will haves that already have wealth
America and modern capitalism

@SusanInFlorida there is a superfund site near to me about 10 miles it is toxic leach field old industrial site. Fix that imagine the improvement unfortunately politicains haven’t mentioned it in 6 election cycles it’s no longer an issue on the community’s radar. How do we address that? Idk

@exchrist you will most likely find a site that was an industrial site is well beyond being a viable option to be turned into accommodation, the cost of clean up would be astronomical on top of which it then has to be left for years afterwards to prove that it is 'clean with constant costs just for site testing. The regulations would be so stringent and rightly so to get change of use it is just plain an unviable project. It is why there are sites that were factories etc standing vacant all over the world.
What I know as "brown field sites" are plain bad news from the word go unless you get them virtually for nothing and are prepared to sit on them for multiple years.
As you said 6 election cycles already approximately 24 years. It may be there is a specific time frame of for instance 50 years before you can even start to do anything with it.
Do you want a piece of land that you will be paying taxes on for x amount of years before you can do anything with it ????

@Avectoijesuismoi I mean idk the exact details but the land I’m thinking of was abandoned by all tech in 1953ish was a collar and shirt production plant lots of mercury involved in that process so might be a forever unusable kinda thing

@exchrist If there is mercury involved it is plain not viable to even think about it. It has more than likely converted to its chemical form called I think methyl mercury. Which is highly toxic to lifeforms.
The concentration I don't know if it is specific to your area but in most the permitible level on concentration on residential land is 2 mg/kg of soil.
The bad news is it never goes away on its own it has to be removed.
It can be done with specific planting to remove it but it can take many years to achieve to lower it to the required level.
Excavation dig it all out and pay for disposal the contaminated soil and bring in new soil.
Thermal treatment on site or off site.
All require very deep pockets and lots of patience and testing for a long period until it is officially clean enough to build on it.

Bottom line is the costs of it make it an absolute non starter, you could most certainly not build any vaguely affordable and those with money are not going buy there.
It will almost certainly have stigma attached to it.
It is why if you buy land that has been used for any commercial or industrial purposes you need to have a very detailed set of reports including one for the soil to check for any contamination whatsoever.
If there is mercury walk away time.

@Avectoijesuismoi another remediation strategy is the hemp species of plant it extracts contaminants from the earth and deposits it into its fruit (hemp buds) burn the buds as fuel and filter out the toxic contaminants from its smoke. It’d probably require anywhere from 3 to 7 seasons up to 21 seasons of hemp growing.

@exchrist as you can see it takes a long time to clean it no matter which method. You would not want to hold land for three years that is polluted never mind 20 +.
On top of there is costs of testing it and all the other legislation costs.
It is not viable to do it.

@Avectoijesuismoi not on your own. I’d endeavor with a local university or industrial leader government agency(EPA) etc. to make it a research initiative. Those responsible for polluting the area should be held responsible for remedying the harm they caused. The potential for ecological/scientific discovery might be profound. What state are you in?
Furthermore 21 generations of hemp plants is only 3 per year(depending on weather and climate) 7 years of sustained growth might be enough.

@exchrist In a lot of cases those responsible for pollution of it may actually no longer exist as those responsible the company could have just ceased to exist.
You mentioned 1953 that is a long time ago. It would take decades alone in courts to get a ruling of you were lucky.
There are too many costs variables and risk for it to be viable
Which is probably why no one has done anything with it.
If it is methyl mercury it is best to just leave it unused until you have nowhere else to go.

It might look a good site to the public but in reality it is anything but.
No developer with any sense will take on a project like that in current world. They are far better off to go buy a clean bit and build on it.
There was a developer in the UK that used to build big luxury homes very successfully thriving company the board decided to get into building lots of small affordable housing long story cut short inside three years they went bankrupt. One simple reason the profit margins were too low to sustain it.

@Avectoijesuismoi I understand capitalism is not given to long term minimalist gains and that anything that takes time is frowned upon. I’m in America it’s more apparent here than anywhere. Regardless not remediating the situation will never rectify the damage. Leading to worsening conditions and increased cost as well as decreases in property value of nearby areas. Therefore minimalist improvements paired with sustainable building and development will permanently fix this. Long term solutions that will result in lessons learned so as to avoid these travesties in the future.
The road is not an easy one but delaying its beginning will only prolong suffering.
Now’s the time

@Avectoijesuismoi finally if St. Louis could redirect its damaged reputation toward the lessons of correcting the damages it will attract investment research and fresh arrivals. A world standard to be emulated. Positive begets improvement.

@exchrist I currently live in a nice part of California (Rancho Santa Fe) nothing is broken there it all works, the schools etc in the area are good.
Everything is nice and clean too.
But the difference between these type of areas and others is the word "request" has been omitted from the dictionary and substituted by "demands" they get high property taxes and they are expected to do what it is for maintaining the highest standards.

@Avectoijesuismoi I can identify here in upstate New York things are not bad like anywhere there are problems. Taxes are higher than many other states and like everywhere only going up. What you describe is “blue state tax syndrome” poor decisions made in and by red states with smaller populations and lower taxes destroy the nations income reputation and environment. Often the red states that are “firing from the hip” and devastating things for everyone else then externalize blame and cost on democrats on the other side of the country.
The mistakes in Florida or Texas Alabama or Georgia are paid for by federal taxes collected from populous blue states California New York and Massachusetts. Or failed policies by newcomers in the early years of America were committed in blue states: the original 13 and then the culprit fled (disappeared) to a newer state only to F it up there too. MF’ing humans;(Europeans) eh?
The original 13 states despite having the most experience thus the most effective policies are forced to shoulder the burden of younger less populated states that have lower taxes bc no one would move there otherwise. I get it
Unfortunately absent the nation working as a whole (as a team should) most of the country’s worst problems will never be addressed and simply remain unsolved while getting worse.
Hence the federal legislature externalizes its focus to foreign wars, sometimes as a result of scapegoating in order to circumvent blame for the consequences of domestic policies.
Certainly if ww2 era politicians would retire or simply die “finally” war time strategies and demeanor could finally become peacetime attitude and solutions.
America is a young nation but its politicains aren’t.
Regarding property taxes I wish it weren’t a thing. Unfortunately in the same way stewardship of the land which life is dependent on at some point became extraction of resources for profit and exploitation of natural regenerating systems to the point of destruction.
Now we have to fix it (correct course).