Anyone interested in Charlie Kirk's assassination?

@Roadsterrider So let us assume the gunman did it. Where was the bullet hole? If the shirt was moved then the bullet had already entered. There had to have been a bullet hole. A 30.06 is a very powerful weapon I have used them to drop some pretty big animals including a bear charging at me. The bear dropped in its tracks. There was an entry wound and an exit wound where the bullet went through the brain of the bear. Small hole between the eyes. Very big hole in the neck. Charlie was not shot.

@hippyjoe1955 Hey Joe, did you see the complete video before they edited it that actually showed the impact and Charlie Kirk fall out of the chair? It was in the neck left of center. There isn't an entry and exit wound because it basically took out half of his neck. I have used a 30:06 for hunting since I was about 14 years old. I have seen the effects of it on large animals like deer. It will generally go through a large deer through and through. I don't think we will see autopsy photos, and I really don't want to. I have watched a few dozen of the videos trying to turn this into a conspiracy, I just don't see it. The guy texted his partner saying that he did it, needed to go back for the rifle. I don't buy into the microphone blowing up or multiple shooters, there was one shot, the bullet or whatever is left of it went flying beyond where he was setting.

@Roadsterrider The coroner said no exit wound. Was he lying? Watch the video on the one I posted. Kirk's neck was unmarked.

@hippyjoe1955 In the video you posted they stop the video before the fountain of blood comes out the left side of his neck. But you can clearly see the wound on his neck in that video. There are reports that there is no exit wound, that there was no bullet, that there was a bullet. If you have ever been downrange when someone else is shooting, high velocity bullets move air, clothing will flap when a bullet goes through. Take a spotting scope the next time you go shooting and watch through the spotting scope, you can follow the bullet to the target by watching the distortion in the air it is passing through. I am sure you have seen a fighter jet break the sound barrier and you get the white flash of air as it breaks the sound barrier, a high velocity bullet is doing that on a smaller scale till it hits the target. There is a hole in the left side of his neck, him getting hit, the shirt puffing up all happen at the same time. His mic is still clipped to his shirt. I worked as a 1371 combat engineer for a time in the military. We used explosives regularly, if there was an explosive device there, there would have been a flash and more than a little puff of his shirt. Even a blasting cap can take off fingers and there is certainly a flash.

@hippyjoe1955 They stop the video before the fountain of blood comes out the left side of his neck, but you can clearly see the hole in his neck in the video you posted. There are reports that say there was no exit wound, that no bullet was found, that yes a bullet was found just under the skin at the back of his neck.

@Roadsterrider In the immortal words of Al Boreland. I don't think so Tim. A 30.06 would have taken his head off. If you doubt me there are a lot of videos showing the impact of a 30.06 on various substances including ballistics gel. I have used them on wildlife and have seen the results.

@hippyjoe1955 And I have as well, shooting a deer in the neck at hunting ranges, 100-150 for most of my hunting doesn't take a deer's head off. There is some difference in bullet construction that may change the outcome, I got a deal on some ballistic tips and tried them for hunting, they destroy a lot of tissue. I have been shooting, hunting and reloading for most of my life. I knew guys in the military who took rounds to their body. It isn't as horrendous as it is always portrayed. Ballistic gel tells you how far a bullet will penetrate soft tissue, how well it will mushroom and transfer energy. It doesn't tell you what happens when it hits bone and starts to tumble. We will have to disagree on this one.

@Roadsterrider A human neck is not very strong. A 30.06 round to it would do much much more damage than what was reported. I don't buy the 'miracle' argument nor do I buy the 'hard bones' theory. Had the bullet hit Charlie's spine the spine would have been shattered and splattered for a very long distance.

@hippyjoe1955 Again, that depends on the bullet used. A 150 or 180 grain pointed soft point will react one way and a full metal jacket will do something else. And if he had some of the old saboted bullets, the actual projectile may have been a 55 grain .223 bullet.

@Roadsterrider It doesn't matter which bullet you use a 30 calibre round is a through and through in a human neck. If it was a light load or possibly a round with old powder in it it wouldn't have reached the target accurately. Yes there are such things as light loads. I fired one aimed at a target 50 yards away. The bullet hit the ground less than 20 yards from the muzzle. Too many things not adding up to make the 'official' story believable. Let's put it this way if a 30 calibre weapon were to hit and stay in a human neck at 150 yards it had have been such a light load that the shooter would be shooting 10 feet over the target's head in order to hit the target. IOW impossible shot. One other question. Why was only one round fired and how did the rifle get to the trees when the guy jumped off the building without it.

@hippyjoe1955 The guy was carrying something wrapped in with cloth when he jumped from the building. He was hit left of center on his neck, had it been in the center, it would have been a different story. Bullets don't always do what you expect them to do and the type of bullet most certainly makes a difference. A friend shot a deer at about 50 yards with a bullet designed for varmints, the bullet penetrated about 2 inches and I wound up shooting the animal as it tried to jump over a fence. There was a 2 inch deep 3 inch wide wound with not even a shred of the bullet left. Personally, I think the guy was probably trying to make a head shot and hitting him in the neck was an accident. There have been a number of times when people have been shot in the head at point blank range and the bullet has followed the skull instead of going into the brain. Entry wound, exit wound, but the guy wakes up with a concussion a few hours later. I can see a number of things that make me believe things are accurate as described. Without autopsy photos, without knowing exactly what took place with the wound, there really isn't any way to tell what happened. In the video you posted he says the thing going by Kirk's right ear is a piece of his necklace, there is another guy with a video saying the stuff flying by his ear is blood splashing from a wound from the rear right side of his head and the neck wound is the exit wound.

@Roadsterrider Such as? The rifle they say he used can't be broken down. It is a unit. So unless he cut the barrel off and shortened the stock that wasn't the rifle he was carrying.

@hippyjoe1955 From what I gather, the rifle was his grandfather's. It was a 98 Mauser rechambered in 30:06, so it was a customized rifle. I have a similar rifle, a Springfield 03-A3 that someone modified years ago, it was barreled with a much shorter barrel than the military barrel, a Fagen stock fitted and it is as short as a Winchester 94 carbine. According to his texts he wrapped it in a towel and stashed it in the nearby woods. My rifle has thumb screws holding the stock, I can take the stock off and wrap the stock and barreled action in a towel very easily. Take down rifles have come and gone in popularity but some Mausers and 03s have been modified into some very nice takedown rifles. I haven't seen a picture of the rifle, so I don't know what he had. But I am very sure it isn't the 4ft long 98 the German infantry carried.

@Roadsterrider So in 26 seconds the guy is going to take his shot, disassemble the rifle, wrap it in a towel, run across a roof and jump down. So why would you leave the weapon in the woods? If you are that fast and that good at hiding your weapon wouldn't you put it in your car as you drove away?

@hippyjoe1955 That is just as likely as exploding microphones and multiple shooters or his own security team conspiring to kill him. It really doesn't take a tremendous amount of time to remove a couple thumb screws, and if I was in the same situation, I wouldn't want to carry a rifle into the parking lot where people were running to get to their cars and away. There isn't any evidence of another shooter, there isn't any evidence of an exploding microphone. The best video I have seen opined that the bullet hit the top of a trauma plate under his shirt and basically ricocheted into his neck, that would account for the puffing out of the shirt, the broken necklace and the lack of performance on the neck up to the standard 30:06 expectations. There are photos clearly showing the imprint of a trauma plate over his heart. Personally, I think the misinformation about the shooting is from everybody and their brother trying to get a Charlie Kirk video out to keep getting clicks. People who don't really know anything about shooting, ballistics, or even human anatomy, trying to explain why he was injured in the way he was, how his body stiffening was a sure sign of a spinal injury. They aren't MDs, they are video makers trying to get a click and this is the biggest thing going on right now. Check out this video. [media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2tcOpW0fM8]

@Roadsterrider I think we can all agree that Kirk was not shot directly in the neck by a 30.06. That simply didn't happen. We both have enough experience with a 30.06 to rule that out completely. So what happened? Well it is possible that Kirk was wearing body armour and the bullet ricocheted and hit him in the neck? Certainly more plausible than a direct hit staying in the neck. However he exploding microphone is also plausible as it has been used before.

@hippyjoe1955 And I still think it depends on what kind of bullet was used. I think it was one nutcase and one round, no conspiracy.

@Roadsterrider I have yet to find a 30.06 round that would be stopped by a human neck. If there is such a thing it would not be accurate enough to hit the target.

@hippyjoe1955 Well, as the video in the link I sent shows, most of the energy could have been expended on a trauma plate and remains of the bullet struck his neck. Bullets don't always do exactly the same thing. A hollow point going at the velocity produced by a 30:06 will practically disintegrate while penetrating less than an FMJ of the same weight. I have recovered HP bullets from deer and there wasn't anything left of the bullet except the jacket.

@Roadsterrider If he were wearing one. I couldn't see one under his T shirt so I rather doubt that scenario as well. I think he was shot at close range by someone in the audience. I suspect there were multiple people involved likely three or more independent shooters. One hit the target with a bullet designed to fragment on impact. It doesn't go very deep but it does a lot of damage.

@hippyjoe1955 Someone close? 30-40 feet? In a crowd of 100s of people packed like sardines, there would have to be witnesses. there would have to be numerous people seeing the shooters. There was an autopsy done, confirming the bullet was lodged in his body.

[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6zPjo5Vogc&t=734s]

He was wearing body armor, that the bullet was deflected by the armor makes the most sense. The conspiracy theories are being shouted from the rooftops to cast doubt about who actually shot him. I am a conspiracy theory guy, nobody will ever convince me that Oswald shot JFK. The evidence here seems pretty clear to me that this guy shot Charlie Kirk, he saw a hit and ran.

@Roadsterrider So what body armour deflects a 30.06 to such a reduced energy level as to remain in the body? A 30.06 will go through a 1/2" steel plate.