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81 years ago today the US did a half baked job at doing what we should have done 91 years ago—and then took credit for it.

Ideological language dehumanizing certain groups had been developing in German academic and cultural circles since the mid-1800s.

By roughly 1928 the man who wrote Mein Kampf—which clearly and unequivocally dehumanized people based on their skin and hair color—had risen to power.

Blatant, antisemitic propaganda was publicized and violence was used against people deemed "unfit" through no objective process.

The Nuremberg Laws stripped people of citizenship based on ethnicity. By 1938, Kristallnacht left hundreds dead and thousands imprisoned. It was openly sanctioned by the state.

The gestapo had rounded up and kidnapped innocent people at gunpoint, in public. Tens of thousands of political dissidents and marginalized groups were detained in concentration camps.

The (American) Red Cross physically visited a single Nazi concentration camp but decided that the reports of piles of dead bodies, with surviving photographs, were irrelevant because they managed to get some pictures of a few people wearing clothes and breathing.

Germany was expanding aggressively and violently with the excuse of acquiring "lebensraum" (livingspace) and "annexing" countries, which is a pretty word for committing political warfare and enforcing your screwed up "laws" in someone else's home. Einsadzgruppen (mobile killing units) skipped the kidnapping and did things the easy way by just shooting victims in public, sometimes after forcibly stripping them naked and violating them in front of their families and neighbors.

And when the US coast guard encountered ships of women, children and elderly people seeking refuge from this, no "immigration" regulations were revised, no diplomatic efforts were made. Most of these people were turned away and many died exactly how they feared they would.

By 1941, hundreds of thousands of innocent people had been systematically kidnapped and murdered over the span of a decade. We didn't do anything until the Nazi regime allied with Japan and brought the violence to us. We decided to wait until the attack on Pearl Harbour threatened US commerce and infrastructure before even acknowledging that any injustice was happening. By this time, millions were already being killed by industrialized mass genocide.

So what did we do then? We microwaved Japan because we were afraid, and played a small roll in taking a part of Normandy Beach from the Nazi regime in France. In the process, we likely also killed some slave laborers to the nazi war machine. We call this D-Day because to us, it was "the end".

It didn't stop the killing though. The nazis continued executions until the very end, some even after liberation was imminent. The death toll reached around 6 million. Then we traumatized and guilt tripped German citizens, some of whom were inevitably nazi sympathizers but many of whom were victims of the violence themselves, by plastering images of their dead, naked, loved ones all over towns and writing phrases like, "Who is guilty? You are" in German. This wasn't some act of vandalism, it was a large scale operation involving many Americans and our officials. We also tasked German civilians with cleaning up the aftermath, so they had to see (and smell) the horror in person.

Almost a century later we haven't learned a single thing about how awful our government is. We still dehumanize people based on affiliation, ethnicity, country, or even just who they associate with, minimize or entirely fail to report atrocities committed overseas, often by our own people, and kick our feet back drinking lemonade while expansionist regimes "annex" other countries just like before.

Happy D Day, everyone. Go watch the Diary of Anne Frank and remember that was a real person.
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sarabee1995 · 26-30, FVIP
One thing worth mentioning... The total death toll from the Holocaust was closer to 11-12 million. The six million figure you quote is just the jewish victims.
@sarabee1995 Yeah I was putting together a ton of info to make this post and missed that important detail lol, you're absolutely right. However the victims in concentration camps died through pure neglect and cold heartedness from the world, which is blood on our hands.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, FVIP
@SinlessOnslaught Yes, for sure. But it is important to remember that the camp victims weren't all Jewish. Yes, the plurality were, but there were many others.
@sarabee1995 I refrained from using the word "Jew" or jewish. I don't believe I used it. 😁
sarabee1995 · 26-30, FVIP
@SinlessOnslaught This graphic shows the patches that camp prisoners were required to wear on their uniforms. "Juden" means Jewish, of course.

@sarabee1995 Not sure what all of those mean. But yes, they certainly all don't say "Jewish".

I wonder which regions were even considerate enough to issue uniforms or any kind of clothing at all.
@sarabee1995 I want you to know I thought about it and I think I missed your point. You're saying the the death toll was larger than 6M and the devastation reached further than I made it sound.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, FVIP
@SinlessOnslaught Exactly. The impact of the Holocaust on Judaism (6 million people) cannot be understated. It truly was a genocide.

But the full extent of the Holocaust was even bigger than that. Catholics, Gays & Lesbians, political opponents, Gypsy's, and more were all rounded up. In total over 11 million civilians died in Germany and occupied territory either in the labor camps, the killing centers, or through other government action.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@sarabee1995 Political opponents == communists and socialists predominantly, then more broadly anti-fascists (who were predominantly communists and socialists).

I want to specify because there's too many clowns who go around with "the NaZi WeRe SoCiaLiSt" because they branded themselves as such (while in reality being perfectly antithetical to the actual ideology), ignoring the fact that leftwingers were literally the first people sent to the camps
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@Elessar

Wrong. There was a genuine left wing in the Nazi party, whose chief proponents were Ernst Roehm and the Strasser brothers, Gregor and Otto. No, these were not international socialists (such as the Soviet Russians pretended to be), but favored government seizure of the means of production, and were proponents of a classless Volksgemeinschaft (or people's community) for Germans only; i.e., national socialists.

Naturally, Hitler regarded them as a political threat to him and his capitalist backers (which indeed they were), and had Roehm and Gregor Strasser killed during the Night of the Long Knives in June of 1934. Otto had fled the country, and spent the war years in Canada, ultimately returning to Germany in 1955, where he unsuccessfully tried to promulgate a new party incorporating his ideas of nationalism and socialism until his death in 1974.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@sarabee1995
One thing worth mentioning... The total death toll from the Holocaust was closer to 11-12 million. The six million figure you quote is just the jewish victims.

King Leopold II of Belgium and the Belgians killed over 10 million Black Africans in the Congo and no one whines about that. The Zionists were pushing that 6 million figure before WWI at the turn of the century. It was in all of the newspapers at that time so you can easily verify it.

And Winston Churchill starved millions of Asian Indians to death during the war because he hated them.

The bottom line: the Jews are not special victims.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Thinkerbell For the record there were also a group of "Jews for Hitler" (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews), who iirc were sent to the camps too eventually, that doesn't make the movement any Jewish. A modern parallel perhaps could be "Latinos for Trump".

The great, great great majority of socialists and communists hated Hitler (and Mussolini) with their guts.

The existence of an extremely tiny minority either in complete denial and/or suffering from Stockholm syndrome doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things. National "socialism" (Nazism) remains to socialism what the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is to democracy, that was my point.
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sarabee1995 · 26-30, FVIP
@Elessar @Thinkerbell I just want to tell you both that I very much appreciate the discussion you are having here. You are both presenting perspectives with examples in a respectful manner. The world needs more of both of you and I'm proud to have you both as friends. 🫂
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Thinkerbell Strasserism wasn't a socialist ideology by even the most lax definitions of "socialism", let alone a leftwing one; and it never had more than a couple thousand members which make it a tiny minority relatively to the total size of the German voting population, or even just the actual socialists.

It was anti-capitalist at most, but anti-capitalism isn't synonym for socialism. Italian fascists were strongly opposed to lasseiz faire capitalism (/liberalism) too and in favor of rationalizations and strong regimentation of the economy, yet Mussolini wasn't anywhere socialist or leftist either. Socialists and leftists were literally the original anti-fascist block, that later expanded more and more to encompass the political center and eventually even the center-right.

The working class is the largest electoral basin so obviously even ideologies that by definition oppress it will need to be voted in by it. Consequently, trying to appease the masses (especially when it's merely posture) doesn't make you a socialist/leftist. Still to use modern Trumpism as a parallel, the fact that Trump campaigned on (allegedly) lowering inflation costs doesn't make Trump anywhere socialist or leftist.

Oh I don't disagree with that, I brought up Latinos for Trump as a modern example of people voting against their own primary (if not existential) interests, not as an example of a tiny minority.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@Elessar

If you define socialism as necessarily left-wing (in the modern sense), then naturally Strasserism wasn't socialism. But what if a party (or a non-insignificant portion of it) is nationalist and also favors redistribution of wealth, breaking up landed estates, nationalizing banks and heavy industry, etc? Then you have national socialism.

"...and it [Strasserism] never had more than a couple thousand members."

You are overlooking the 3 million working-class storm troopers in the SA that Roehm was in charge of.

I suggest you read the recent book Hitler, by Volker Ullrich.


And as for Mussolini, he started out as a socialist, but then found an easier path to political power via fascism. But he later fell in with bad company, and it didn't end well for him.