Why Democrats so viciously oppose tariffs …
The only reason that I can think of is that they are somehow getting kickbacks from countries or businesses that make things in foreign countries.
80-89, M
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swirlie · F
The only reason that I can think of is that they are somehow getting kickbacks
Who's "they"?
It's Republicans who are imposing tariffs, but you are asking about Democrats.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@swirlie WITH tariffs, the US Taxpayers will be getting the kickbacks. Meanwhile, Canadian and other foreign companies can recover the added cost of the tariffs by cutting payoffs to US politicians and their campaigns.
It's the Peter-Paul principle: To pay Peter they take away from Paul for a net result of no additional cost.
It's the Peter-Paul principle: To pay Peter they take away from Paul for a net result of no additional cost.
swirlie · F
@Heartlander
I have some swampland in Florida that I'm putting up for sale through buyer invitation only. Because you're such a valued customer of SW, I'm going to offer you the entire package at a very special price not available to anyone else, all of which has full water access and magnificent, unobstructed views!
How many acres would you like me to set aside for you? Do you want all of it?
I have some swampland in Florida that I'm putting up for sale through buyer invitation only. Because you're such a valued customer of SW, I'm going to offer you the entire package at a very special price not available to anyone else, all of which has full water access and magnificent, unobstructed views!
How many acres would you like me to set aside for you? Do you want all of it?
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@swirlie I already have swampland in Louisiana. You can see it on TV in that alligator hunting series. It's where Landry has some of his traps. To see what's happening now it may soon be very valuable. Just 20 miles away from that steel mill to be built in Donaldsonville thanks to Trump, and 20 miles from the big ship building industry on the Gulf that Trump wants to revitalize. And not to far from the US stretogic oil reserves that Biden depleted. The Gulf coast is in for a big economic boost, and I own part of it!
swirlie · F
@Heartlander
The US strategic oil reserves you speak of that Biden depleted are called "strategic" for a reason. That reason is national emergency use, which could be for the military's use such was the case of fuel rationing during WWII, or more to the actual case, the US is simply out of oil. Biden knew this and he had no choice but to release US strategic oil reserves to accommodate basic domestic daily consumption.
You have to understand that the USA receives 80% of it's crude oil from Canada, not from America's own domestic stockpiles because there are none. That is also why the USA receives 70% of it's total electrical power from Canada who generates that power, simply because the USA has no electrical infrastructure in place to handle America's own domestic power needs.
I could go on but what would be the point? The truth is, the USA is on the verge of total financial bankruptcy and any lofty idea that Trump had to revitalize the ship building industry on the Gulf is nothing more than pie in the sky. Why would Trump revitalize an antiquated ship building industry when those (bank-borrowed) financial resources would be better spent building America's own power generating infrastructures instead of the USA remaining almost wholly dependent on Canada to supply America's power needs?
Once an area is deemed swamp land, it generally stays that way indefinitely for a very good reason... it was never any good for anything to begin with and only reverted back to it's natural state when left alone and undisturbed.
The US strategic oil reserves you speak of that Biden depleted are called "strategic" for a reason. That reason is national emergency use, which could be for the military's use such was the case of fuel rationing during WWII, or more to the actual case, the US is simply out of oil. Biden knew this and he had no choice but to release US strategic oil reserves to accommodate basic domestic daily consumption.
You have to understand that the USA receives 80% of it's crude oil from Canada, not from America's own domestic stockpiles because there are none. That is also why the USA receives 70% of it's total electrical power from Canada who generates that power, simply because the USA has no electrical infrastructure in place to handle America's own domestic power needs.
I could go on but what would be the point? The truth is, the USA is on the verge of total financial bankruptcy and any lofty idea that Trump had to revitalize the ship building industry on the Gulf is nothing more than pie in the sky. Why would Trump revitalize an antiquated ship building industry when those (bank-borrowed) financial resources would be better spent building America's own power generating infrastructures instead of the USA remaining almost wholly dependent on Canada to supply America's power needs?
Once an area is deemed swamp land, it generally stays that way indefinitely for a very good reason... it was never any good for anything to begin with and only reverted back to it's natural state when left alone and undisturbed.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@swirlie :) you make a very good case for why we need to thank Trump for rescuing the US economy. Crumbling infrastructure, failed energy policies, relying on Canada and other countries for basics. How Canada can ever forgive Biden and Obama for yanking the rug out from under them with Keystone is beyond me? I guess that 270% Tariff Canada puts on US Dairy with no push back by US democrats gave Canada reason to not protest to loudly about that Keystone betrayal. .
Not much sympathy by us Red state people when Blue states go dark or have brown-outs and see their air conditioners stall under the next heat wave. They elected the clowns that snuffed out the economic engine.
Not much sympathy by us Red state people when Blue states go dark or have brown-outs and see their air conditioners stall under the next heat wave. They elected the clowns that snuffed out the economic engine.
swirlie · F
@Heartlander
Well, first of all Heartlander, you are woefully misinformed about the Keystone project as well as Canadian tariffs on US Dairy. I don't know if you're just trolling me for reaction on my part, or if you're actually an incredibly stupid man? 🤷🏼♀
The Keystone pipeline was funded by both Canada and the USA. Canada paid for the pipe from Alberta to the US border, then the US government was suppose to pay for everything south of the border, right down to the Gulf. The Canadian side got finished to completion, but the US side never got completed nor barely started.
The reason for America's failure to uphold it's end of the bargain is two-fold. The US government ran out of money for any infrastructure upgrades domestically and 2) all that oil coming from the Alberta Tar Sands project that was to head south is called 'heavy crude', not 'sweet crude'.
The difference between heavy crude and sweet crude is that sweet crude is very light crude and can be refined very easily because ALL of the bitumen has been extracted from it, or was not present in the crude oil to begin with. All the crude oil that's found (but no longer exists) in the USA was sweet crude, not heavy crude.
The problem isn't on the Canadian side of the pipeline for Keystone, it's on the American side. Nowhere in the USA is there even a single oil refinery that is capable of extracting bitumen from crude oil. To do otherwise requires a very modern, updated refinery that is upgraded for that specific purpose, many of which are found all throughout Canada in comparison to the USA which has none.
To send Alberta's heavy crude through that Keystone pipeline even if it was completed from north to south, would prove futile for the entire intent of the project. This is because American oil refineries cannot really do anything with that heavy crude oil because of their very old, very outdated oil refineries from coast to coast, including those all throughout the State of Texas.
The USA therefore, can only take sweet crude from Canada, but not heavy crude. Therefore, the pipeline was cancelled on the American side because US refineries have remained incapable of refining that heavy Canadian crude from the Alberta Tar Sands Project.
But all that is actually irrelevant to Canada because where the Keystone pipeline ends at the Canada US border, they simply turned the pipeline's direction and headed all that heavy crude into Ontario and Quebec as well as west toward British Columbia where all the bitumen is extracted during the refining process regardless of the Canadian oil refinery it is sent to and the bitumen is subsequently marketed right within Canadian markets. Bitumen is used in road asphalt as well as asphalt roofing shingles.
Canada needed it's end of the Keystone pipeline completed regardless of which direction the heavy crude flowed, but because the USA has no money for oil refinery infrastructure upgrades, it's the USA's loss, not Canada's.
As far as your misperception of 270% tariffs being imposed by Canada onto US Dairy, the actual truth is, the so-called Canadian imposed tariff on US Dairy is actually ZERO.
Zero tariffs on US Dairy was a Trade Agreement deal that Trump himself signed in his first term back in 2016 and has been honored by Canada to this very day.
What you're telling me therefore about Canadian imposed tariffs on US Dairy is not only complete bullshitte that's coming from YOUR mouth, it also shows me that your primary news source could only be some extreme right-wing propaganda dog and pony show that you allow to hold your full attention, rather than seek truth.
It's because of people like you that Trump is back in the Oval Office for a second term, which is why the USA is slowly imploding before your very eyes.
How Canada can ever forgive Biden and Obama for yanking the rug out from under them with Keystone is beyond me?
I guess that 270% Tariff Canada puts on US Dairy with no push back by US democrats gave Canada reason to not protest to loudly about that Keystone betrayal.
I guess that 270% Tariff Canada puts on US Dairy with no push back by US democrats gave Canada reason to not protest to loudly about that Keystone betrayal.
Well, first of all Heartlander, you are woefully misinformed about the Keystone project as well as Canadian tariffs on US Dairy. I don't know if you're just trolling me for reaction on my part, or if you're actually an incredibly stupid man? 🤷🏼♀
The Keystone pipeline was funded by both Canada and the USA. Canada paid for the pipe from Alberta to the US border, then the US government was suppose to pay for everything south of the border, right down to the Gulf. The Canadian side got finished to completion, but the US side never got completed nor barely started.
The reason for America's failure to uphold it's end of the bargain is two-fold. The US government ran out of money for any infrastructure upgrades domestically and 2) all that oil coming from the Alberta Tar Sands project that was to head south is called 'heavy crude', not 'sweet crude'.
The difference between heavy crude and sweet crude is that sweet crude is very light crude and can be refined very easily because ALL of the bitumen has been extracted from it, or was not present in the crude oil to begin with. All the crude oil that's found (but no longer exists) in the USA was sweet crude, not heavy crude.
The problem isn't on the Canadian side of the pipeline for Keystone, it's on the American side. Nowhere in the USA is there even a single oil refinery that is capable of extracting bitumen from crude oil. To do otherwise requires a very modern, updated refinery that is upgraded for that specific purpose, many of which are found all throughout Canada in comparison to the USA which has none.
To send Alberta's heavy crude through that Keystone pipeline even if it was completed from north to south, would prove futile for the entire intent of the project. This is because American oil refineries cannot really do anything with that heavy crude oil because of their very old, very outdated oil refineries from coast to coast, including those all throughout the State of Texas.
The USA therefore, can only take sweet crude from Canada, but not heavy crude. Therefore, the pipeline was cancelled on the American side because US refineries have remained incapable of refining that heavy Canadian crude from the Alberta Tar Sands Project.
But all that is actually irrelevant to Canada because where the Keystone pipeline ends at the Canada US border, they simply turned the pipeline's direction and headed all that heavy crude into Ontario and Quebec as well as west toward British Columbia where all the bitumen is extracted during the refining process regardless of the Canadian oil refinery it is sent to and the bitumen is subsequently marketed right within Canadian markets. Bitumen is used in road asphalt as well as asphalt roofing shingles.
Canada needed it's end of the Keystone pipeline completed regardless of which direction the heavy crude flowed, but because the USA has no money for oil refinery infrastructure upgrades, it's the USA's loss, not Canada's.
As far as your misperception of 270% tariffs being imposed by Canada onto US Dairy, the actual truth is, the so-called Canadian imposed tariff on US Dairy is actually ZERO.
Zero tariffs on US Dairy was a Trade Agreement deal that Trump himself signed in his first term back in 2016 and has been honored by Canada to this very day.
What you're telling me therefore about Canadian imposed tariffs on US Dairy is not only complete bullshitte that's coming from YOUR mouth, it also shows me that your primary news source could only be some extreme right-wing propaganda dog and pony show that you allow to hold your full attention, rather than seek truth.
It's because of people like you that Trump is back in the Oval Office for a second term, which is why the USA is slowly imploding before your very eyes.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@swirlie you continue to make the case for Trump. The decision to cancel Keystone was a political decision made by Obama, made after giving false hope to Canadian and US investors. Had it been a futile project from the get go investors would have sank it faster tha Obama could say “hope and change”.
As it is in all things, the proof is in the pudding. With oil, it’s in a dependable supply and price per gallon at the pump. And that goes for all sources of energy. Biden’s marker for success was higher prices for gas at the pump and forcing the auto industry to retool to make all electric. But he did all that against the will of the Americas people and the American people booted him out of office. Interesting how Canadians still embrace him :)
As it is in all things, the proof is in the pudding. With oil, it’s in a dependable supply and price per gallon at the pump. And that goes for all sources of energy. Biden’s marker for success was higher prices for gas at the pump and forcing the auto industry to retool to make all electric. But he did all that against the will of the Americas people and the American people booted him out of office. Interesting how Canadians still embrace him :)
swirlie · F
@Heartlander
Again Heartlander, you need a more reliable news source than Breitbart News, hosted by none other than Steve Bannon to keep you supplied with America's right-wing agenda. I thought you'd have had all that figured out by now.
I have not made one statement to make the case for Trump, YOU have. Trump is in your camp, not mine. He is YOUR fearless leader, not mine.
Wrong again, Heartlander. The Keystone pipeline first entered negotiation between Canada and the USA with George W. Bush who approved the idea for the USA to build their half of the pipeline from the Canada/US border south.
Obama then came along and cancelled the deal because Alberta crude was what he called "dirty" crude which is crude full of bitumen, which he was correctly stating even by Canadian standards of interpretation. It was Canada who told Obama that unless he upgraded American oil refineries, Canadian heavy crude oil was no good to him!
The pipeline from Alberta's Tar Sands project was already being built from the project site to the Canada/US border regardless of any American involvement, because the original plan had the pipeline going east/west across Canada, not south to the Gulf of Mexico, from which point it was to be refined in the USA and the finished product tankered to ports throughout the Caribbean islands.
When Obama cancelled the USA's end of the bargain, Canada said "no problem, we'll turn the line east as well as west and so it was. If in the future the USA wanted in on the deal, all Canada had to do was put a 'T' junction in the pipeline as well as a shutoff valve to make the crude flow southward, if and when required by the USA.
From Canada's perspective then, Obama cancelling his end of the deal did not surprise Canada, nor did it dash any false hopes of a good investment plan among investors.
When that deal was first made, the assumption was made by Canada that the USA would upgrade their oil refineries to handle the 'heavy crude', otherwise the plan wouldn't work because as mentioned previously, American oil refineries had not been upgrade to accept 'heavy crude' up to that point in time.
George W. Bush assured everyone that America's refineries would be upgraded, but they were NOT.
When Obama came into power, he immediately cancelled his end of the pipeline construction because there was NO money in the budget to upgrade American oil refineries to accept 'heavy crude' from Canada and so Obama had no choice but to cancel it, which Canada had been fully anticipating anyway up to that point because Canada knew it wasn't going to work without those upgrades!
Donald J. Trump then came into power in 2016 and immediately rekindled the Keystone pipeline, but did so with false hopes and with having no understanding whatsoever of the oil refining process, nor the shortcomings of American oil refineries across the board.
When Joe Biden came into power in 2020, he immediately cancelled the Keystone project AGAIN, for the same reason that Obama cancelled it, because there was no money available to upgrade American oil refineries to accept that heavy crude oil from Canada.
Then bright boy Trump showed up again in 2024 and immediately started talking about Keystone AGAIN, but Canada advised Trump this time around that with all that American dithering that took place since the days of George W. Bush, Canada built a pipeline from Alberta all the way through the Rocky Mountains to the Port of Vancouver, where that heavy Canadian crude is now being sold to China by the boatload, not to the USA!
Wrong again, Heartlander! The only place where oil is in a dependable supply is Canada, not the USA. The US is wholly dependent on Canada for 80% of America's daily oil consumption, as well as 70% dependent on Canada for America's electricity.
Being wholly dependent on a foreign country's oil and electricity to supply your own country's needs is NOT what having a "dependable supply" is all about, because America does not have control of it, Canada and Venezuela have control of it because the USA does not have it's own domestic supply anymore because of America's greed for oil consumption, The only crude oil the USA has today are 'strategic oil reserves' which are for emergency-use only in the USA.
America's people never booted Biden out of Office Heartlander, Biden's health failed him and he announced that he would not be running for the Presidency in 2024. He made that announcement at the beginning of 2023 where he finished serving his Term in Office right up to his last scheduled day in Office. Nobody got booted out of Office Heartlander, sorry to have to keep correcting your perception.
You need to learn about your own country Heartlander before you start trashing the country that supplies your country with it's energy resources. Your kind of right-wing mentality is what put Trump back in Office a second time and America's right-wing mentality is what's causing the US government to self-implode from gross incompetency at the top end.
Again Heartlander, you need a more reliable news source than Breitbart News, hosted by none other than Steve Bannon to keep you supplied with America's right-wing agenda. I thought you'd have had all that figured out by now.
you continue to make the case for Trump.
I have not made one statement to make the case for Trump, YOU have. Trump is in your camp, not mine. He is YOUR fearless leader, not mine.
The decision to cancel Keystone was a political decision made by Obama, made after giving false hope to Canadian and US investors.
Wrong again, Heartlander. The Keystone pipeline first entered negotiation between Canada and the USA with George W. Bush who approved the idea for the USA to build their half of the pipeline from the Canada/US border south.
Obama then came along and cancelled the deal because Alberta crude was what he called "dirty" crude which is crude full of bitumen, which he was correctly stating even by Canadian standards of interpretation. It was Canada who told Obama that unless he upgraded American oil refineries, Canadian heavy crude oil was no good to him!
The pipeline from Alberta's Tar Sands project was already being built from the project site to the Canada/US border regardless of any American involvement, because the original plan had the pipeline going east/west across Canada, not south to the Gulf of Mexico, from which point it was to be refined in the USA and the finished product tankered to ports throughout the Caribbean islands.
When Obama cancelled the USA's end of the bargain, Canada said "no problem, we'll turn the line east as well as west and so it was. If in the future the USA wanted in on the deal, all Canada had to do was put a 'T' junction in the pipeline as well as a shutoff valve to make the crude flow southward, if and when required by the USA.
From Canada's perspective then, Obama cancelling his end of the deal did not surprise Canada, nor did it dash any false hopes of a good investment plan among investors.
When that deal was first made, the assumption was made by Canada that the USA would upgrade their oil refineries to handle the 'heavy crude', otherwise the plan wouldn't work because as mentioned previously, American oil refineries had not been upgrade to accept 'heavy crude' up to that point in time.
George W. Bush assured everyone that America's refineries would be upgraded, but they were NOT.
When Obama came into power, he immediately cancelled his end of the pipeline construction because there was NO money in the budget to upgrade American oil refineries to accept 'heavy crude' from Canada and so Obama had no choice but to cancel it, which Canada had been fully anticipating anyway up to that point because Canada knew it wasn't going to work without those upgrades!
Donald J. Trump then came into power in 2016 and immediately rekindled the Keystone pipeline, but did so with false hopes and with having no understanding whatsoever of the oil refining process, nor the shortcomings of American oil refineries across the board.
When Joe Biden came into power in 2020, he immediately cancelled the Keystone project AGAIN, for the same reason that Obama cancelled it, because there was no money available to upgrade American oil refineries to accept that heavy crude oil from Canada.
Then bright boy Trump showed up again in 2024 and immediately started talking about Keystone AGAIN, but Canada advised Trump this time around that with all that American dithering that took place since the days of George W. Bush, Canada built a pipeline from Alberta all the way through the Rocky Mountains to the Port of Vancouver, where that heavy Canadian crude is now being sold to China by the boatload, not to the USA!
With oil, it’s in a dependable supply and price per gallon at the pump. And that goes for all sources of energy.
Wrong again, Heartlander! The only place where oil is in a dependable supply is Canada, not the USA. The US is wholly dependent on Canada for 80% of America's daily oil consumption, as well as 70% dependent on Canada for America's electricity.
Being wholly dependent on a foreign country's oil and electricity to supply your own country's needs is NOT what having a "dependable supply" is all about, because America does not have control of it, Canada and Venezuela have control of it because the USA does not have it's own domestic supply anymore because of America's greed for oil consumption, The only crude oil the USA has today are 'strategic oil reserves' which are for emergency-use only in the USA.
But he did all that against the will of the Americas people and the American people booted him out of office.
America's people never booted Biden out of Office Heartlander, Biden's health failed him and he announced that he would not be running for the Presidency in 2024. He made that announcement at the beginning of 2023 where he finished serving his Term in Office right up to his last scheduled day in Office. Nobody got booted out of Office Heartlander, sorry to have to keep correcting your perception.
You need to learn about your own country Heartlander before you start trashing the country that supplies your country with it's energy resources. Your kind of right-wing mentality is what put Trump back in Office a second time and America's right-wing mentality is what's causing the US government to self-implode from gross incompetency at the top end.