How much should it cost to weigh a boson? (Scientists think we’re going to need a bigger particle collider)

[i]Photo above - "Hey, Joe . . . is the W boson really twice as heavy as they thought? And what are we gonna do about it?" "Sheesh . . . build a new particle collider! Haven't you been paying attention?"[/i]

The story thus far: The Large Hadron Collider (on the France/Switzerland border) cost $5 billion to build 15 years ago. It’s 17 miles in circumference. And it costs about $5 billion a year just to keep the thing plugged in and warmed up. 6,000 scientists work there. And it’s obsolete.

Today's update: The Swiss are considering a proposal to spend $17 billion (3X as much) on a new particle accelerator. Makes sense, because it will be 56 miles long – 3 times as large. Presumably it will cost 3X as much annually to operate ($17 billion) and employ 18,000 scientists – 3X as many as the current LHC.

If you have some spare change, you might want to invest in adjacent Swiss land. There might be a need for affordable housing, roads, shopping malls, fast food restaurants, schools, hospitals, sports stadiums, . . .

Switzerland seems to be balking at this new particle accelerator. It's a lot of money.

The question on everyone’s mind, now that the Large Hadron Collider FINALLY caught a “live” Higgs boson, and measured it: “what does that darn W boson weigh?” (see link below)

There are two competing measurements, about 100% apart. SOMEONE is going to have to build a new particle accelerator, if we want to find who's right and who's wrong. Will 56 miles long be big enough for the new one? There are 5 types of bosons (that we know of). Someone might raise questions about the other 3. We might need more than 56 miles.

I’ve read – for years – that 90% of the scientists who ever lived on planet earth are alive today. (see 2nd link below). Evidently most are working at one the current or planned/future particle accelerators. It's amazing this many people are falling short of Albert Einstein, Enrico Fermi, Erwin Schoedinger, and Max Planck.

Shouldn't we have more people working on (the so far elusive) safe, long range EV batteries? Or the bird flu vaccine? The US government had 60 labs on this, full time, and got beat to the finish line by some obscure private company called Zoetis. (see yesterday's column).

There are scientists who want to build permanent lunar colonies. Bigger space stations, to replace the leaky, decrepit International Space Station (launched during the iMac era, 30 years ago). Can I sign up to live in one of those new undersea colonies? And we need giant lasers to zap any asteroids that wander too close. There’s a new asteroid that has a 2% chance of hitting the earth – in 45 years. It’s 8 times more massive than the dinosaur killing asteroid. Can someone who's good with numbers please the math and tell us how big a laser we will need? And what will happen to the thousands of pieces asteroid debris that rain down on us after it’s zapped? Will we need more telescopes to keep an eye on them?

If you actually insist, I can keep listing all the bizarre science proposals that keep popping up. Man made mountains to alter rainfall patterns. Wrapping Greenland’s glaciers in tinfoil to slow down the melting. A giant hydroelectric dam at the entrance to the Mediterranean, to generate electricity. Making new glaciers from scratch.

This is the kind of crapola which the US Congress has to mull over, year after year. No wonder so much sneaks through. A couple of years ago some journalist demonstrated that most senators don't even know what atoms are used to make H20. But they do know that federal projects mean federal money in their home districts.

If someone can honestly explain to me WHY the weight of the W boson is a higher priority than schools, student achievement, affordable housing, and better healthcare (including global vaccine availability), I’m listening. My starting point is skepticism that W bosons or glacier blankets are going to make a difference to us in the short term. Or long term.

Musk . . . the ball is still in your court. Congrats on sending termination emails to those 60 labs full of government bird flue scientists, who couldn’t match what Zoetis did. Please don't get conned into building the worlds largest particle collider, even if some Pentagon general shows you a secret report on how it could lead to an amazing military new weapon.

I’m just sayin’ . . .

Weighing in on the W boson measurement conundrum

90% of All the Scientists That Ever Lived Are Alive Today - Future of Life Institute

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ElwoodBlues · M

Too long; only skimmed.

You are questioning the value of fundamental research by pretending the only purpose of particle accelerators is to weigh bosons. That's not the only purpose by any means, so I dismiss the whole line of argument.

Let's look at fundamental research from another perspective - that of investment. How about if we decide to take 2% of the profits from research and plow that money into further research. Only 2%, sounds fair, right?

Back in the 1950s an organization called "Bell Labs" located somewhere in New Jersey was financing fundamental research. One of their employees developed a "transfer resistance" device that they named the "transistor."

You can see what's coming. The profits engendered by the transistor amount to several trillion dollars per year. 2% of two trillion dollars is $40 billion. $40 billion that we wouldn't have had if not for fundamental research.

We are already keeping and enjoying trillions of dollars of profit from fundamental research. Our whole NSF budget is only $9 billion per year. The next transistor is out there. What's so bad about spending 2% of the profits from research on further research???

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@ElwoodBlues i'm satirizing the "value" of fundamental research when america is demonstrably unable to apply that research to things like:

- affordable housing
- a living wage
- improved student achievement scores
- better healthcare
- ending substance abuse
- crumbling inner cities
- expensive, explosive EV batteries
- a $7.50 Starbucks grande which is indistinguishable from a Dunkin Donuts coffee.

thanks for being a contestant on today's show. You always keep things humorous.

ElwoodBlues · M

@SusanInFlorida You are barking up the wrong tree. All you're saying is that you disagree with how American society has disbursed the profits earned by research. You're saying society is behaving in a silly and shortsighted manner. Your argument boils down to "don't do profitable research because society will misspend the profits." It's an argument for staying in the dark ages.

And, as you know, we have elected a President who is bitterly opposed to those goals you've listed. You spent the election disparaging Tяump's opponents. Now you're reaping what you sowed. Perhaps you should wear one of these.

Subsumedpat · 36-40, M

It is used to advance our science, the fusion reactor is the holy grail for energy production, everyone is trying for it.

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Subsumedpat · 36-40, M

@SusanInFlorida It is clean in that it leaves no radioactive waste to deal with. We are not there so we cant begin to think about what it will cost to run one, the British got one to sustain fusion for 6 seconds so we are a long way away.

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@Subsumedpat from "copilot"

"Fusion requires temperatures of about 100 million Kelvin (approximately six times hotter than the sun's core). At these temperatures, hydrogen is a plasma, not a gas. Ions inside a compact fusion reactor have been heated to 100 million degrees Celsius (180 million degrees Fahrenheit) for the first time, which is a monumental step towards making nuclear fusion energy a practical reality."

explain to me how temperatures 6 times hotter than the suns core won't create an epic "meltdown" if something goes wrong.

Subsumedpat · 36-40, M

@SusanInFlorida Because they did it for 6 seconds and it did not.

MethDozer · M

The party of luddites and Philistines

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@MethDozer the party of "luddites" would be the one doling out grants and subsidies to union workers, to forestall the coming changeover to automation.

MethDozer · M

@SusanInFlorida I wouldn't expect anything less than worker solidarity and rights from you.

Automation is fine, but it shouldn't mean lost jobs, just easier jobs. The greedy class disagrees but that's what revolutions are for.

This message was deleted by its author.

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@MarmeeMarch i predicted someone would say this. good one, in any case.

did you know 4 million bosons were slaughtered in the fermi lab experiment, just to get their weight? thats why boson wings are so expensive.

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