America spends too much on healthcare ($5 trillion annually). So the solution is . . . to put the government in charge of everything???

Photo above - would this guy have shot the head of the Veterans Administration if he blamed his chronic back pain on THEIR policies?

Americans (as a nation) spend the most on healthcare, die sooner, and are sicker when we die (see link below). Yeah . . . been hearing that for more than a decade now. Since before Obamacare, actually. A program which was supposed to increase lifespans, cut costs, and insure everyone for everything. (insert sound of crickets chirping).

And now the US spends $5 trillion annually ($13,000 per man, woman, child, and non-binary). Double the amount spent by countries like Australia, Canada, and the UK.

So, we MIGHT be able to save money on healthcare by putting 200,000 federal bureaucrats in charge. That’s about how many collectively work at the FDA (Food and Drug Administration); HHS (Health and Human Services; Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA healthcare programs. And the ARHQ, ATSDR, CFSAN, CNPP, CDC, CMS, DHA, FNS, FSIS . .

Yeah, there are dozens and dozens of agencies. No, I’m not going to spell out all the acronyms here. Use Google if you’re skeptical.

But still, it MIGHT (theoretically) be possible for Americans to live longer, healthier, and less expensive lives, if we put politicians and bureaucrats in charge. And if those brainiacs might do not repeat any of the awful policies in effect at the VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Pentagon, Public Schools, and whoever is in charge of fixing our 41,000 unsafe/collapsing bridges.

This might possibly work. But I’m still skeptical.

I know how Britain and Canada make it work (I’ve been to both countries, but not Australia). They pay doctors and nurses a pittance – which is why so many of their medical professionals aspire to migrate to the USA.

Also, if you live in Britain, you can’t have elective surgery whenever you want. You can get on a waiting list and then cross your fingers. Things like hernia repair. Bunion surgery. Joint replacement. Chronic back pain. Tonsillectomies. Kidney stones. The NHS WILL do something about your appendicitis, but only after watching it fester for weeks and hoping for the best until it takes a turn for the worse.

This is, in fact, how America’s own veterans' administration health care operates. And a contributing factor for why so many vets have untreated PSTD, substance abuse, mental health issues, etc. They’re on some waiting list.

I do want the extra 19 months of life expectancy Brits enjoy. But to achieve that we’d probably have to allow the government to take charge of even MORE (non-healthcare) stuff. Transition us to fewer cars and shorter trips. Re-criminalize narcotics. Use Britain’s weird method of defining live birth or not. Criminalize gun possession (full disclosure – I believe guns should be licensed and insured like automobiles). Restrict the use of ski-doos and personal watercraft. Stop alcohol consumption on college campuses. Arrest and jail all those streetcorner Fentanyl impresarios.

Simply paying American doctors less, and pivoting to Veterans Administration style treatment policies probably won’t get us there. And creating a panic about vaccinations won’t either, Mr. Kennedy. Your dad is probably rolling over in his grave.

I’m just sayin’ . . .

‘The US is failing’: Shocking study of 10 wealthy nations reveals Americans die the youngest, ‘live the sickest lives’ — despite the US spending the most on health care. Here’s the problem

List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia

This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »

swirlie · F

🇨🇦 If I may add my two loonie$-worth of insight to this brilliant discussion, since Canada no longer uses pennies as a legal form of currency, my hand is now forced to actually contribute $2.00 if I want to contribute two of anything.

As a qualified end-user of the Canadian healthcare system, the Canadian model works well if you're not in a hurry, it's not free, it's administered by the government and it's not a money-making, get-rich-quick scheme for aspiring young Med students fresh out of Med School who want in on the action.

What it costs each Canadian on average for their annual healthcare premium is about $500 dollars per year/per person and that healthcare premium is automatically charged to each citizen when they file their annual income tax return on April 30th each year, which of course is for the previous year's income filing. This is where we pay for our annual healthcare premium. We are not billed separately for it in Canada.

That healthcare premium is based on each person's annual gross income, not net income. If you earn $30,000 per year, your annual healthcare premium will cost you about $200.00 max.

If you earn $300,000+ per year, that healthcare premium will cost you about $900 whether you use the healthcare system or not, regardless of how many millions of dollars you earn in gross income.

Now, just think about that for a minute... if I earned $300k per year and my healthcare premium was $900, that is exactly HALF of what I would normally pay for my car insurance premium each year which includes full auto coverage, but which means I pay $1,800 per year for eff'ing car insurance but only $900 for government health insurance!

I live in the Province of Ontario where cage for the Toronto Blue Jays is hanging from a ceiling. Because I'm domiciled in the Province of Ontario, my healthcare coverage is ONLY valid in the Province of Ontario! That means that if I get in my car and drive to the west or east coast of Canada and I get sick out there and end up in the hospital out there, my Ontario Health insurance does NOT follow me outside the Province of my residence!

What this means is, that if I travel to another Province in Canada, I must first purchase 'Emergency Medical Travel Insurance', no different than what most people would do when they fly to the Caribbean for a 1 week vacation and purchase Emergency Travel Insurance from their Travel Agent before they leave home.

So then, how much does Emergency Medical Travel Insurance cost then?

It would cost me about $20 per day for every day I was intending on being out of the Province of Ontario for a maximum out-of-Province excursion of 30 days. If I stay away for longer than 30 days, I must purchase another bunch of travel insurance over the phone and have my credit card handy.

If I do not buy travel insurance when I travel to other parts of Canada on vacation or on business and I end up in the hospital while away, I am handed a hospital bill just like they do in the USA, which must be paid by credit card or cash before I'll be discharged from that Canadian hospital which is outside my Province of residency.

If however, I end up in a hospital while I'm still in my Province of residence in Ontario, I simply hand the hospital Triage Nurse my Ontario Hospitalization card which we Canadians all carry in our pockets, or in my case in my bra next to my discretely-stowed Derringer, then I can have a heart transplant while I'm in there and walk out after I'm discharged with NO cost to me at all. All that heart transplant would have cost me was my annual $900 premium which I would have to pay anyway, even if I never used it!

The problem with the Canadian healthcare system is that it is grossly under-funded, which means Canadians don't pay near enough for their annual healthcare premiums!

We may complain about the high cost of car insurance here, but we pay it regardless if we want to drive our car. The problem with the government running the show is that they don't know enough to raise the healthcare premiums to actually make the healthcare system work much better in Canada.

Instead, they dither and dick around, trying to be nice to everyone while trying to make it 'affordable' to people who have just spent $1800 on car insurance because they own a car. If people are that poor, then sell the car and cancel the car insurance, ffs's!

From what I've understood about the American system of healthcare, Americans spend a lot of money on healthcare premiums but they also have to sell their house to pay their hospital bills on top of that, which works out to be about $1000 per day for just the bed and 3 hospital meals per day, assuming the doctors do nothing with you while you're in there!

So, in the USA then, it costs a thousand bucks a day just to get in the door before you even pull your pants down or stick your tongue out before some high-priced doctor does anything whatsoever with you, but who then charges for his professional services by the minute because American healthcare is a high-stakes game of roulette where you pay-to-play, not a Constitutional right!

It's a Constitutional Right to own and perhaps even carry a loaded firearm in the USA, but healthcare in America is not a Constitutional Right and can potentially cost you everything you own if you step one foot inside an American hospital. How did that happen, Doctor Kevorkian? 🤕

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@swirlie

thanks for your thoughtful (and verbose) reply.

it's clear that no government can provide healthcare for "$500 a year per person". The rest of the cost is borne by personal income taxes, corporate income taxes, etc.

canada's per-capita health care spending is actually around $6,500 a person.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locations=CA

swirlie · F

@SusanInFlorida

I found a better example of a "verbose" Thesis on American Healthcare for you:

Americans (as a nation) spend the most on healthcare, die sooner, and are sicker when we die (see link below). Yeah . . . been hearing that for more than a decade now. Since before Obamacare, actually. A program which was supposed to increase lifespans, cut costs, and insure everyone for everything. (insert sound of crickets chirping).

And now the US spends $5 trillion annually ($13,000 per man, woman, child, and non-binary). Double the amount spent by countries like Australia, Canada, and the UK.

So, we MIGHT be able to save money on healthcare by putting 200,000 federal bureaucrats in charge. That’s about how many collectively work at the FDA (Food and Drug Administration); HHS (Health and Human Services; Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA healthcare programs. And the ARHQ, ATSDR, CFSAN, CNPP, CDC, CMS, DHA, FNS, FSIS . .

Yeah, there are dozens and dozens of agencies. No, I’m not going to spell out all the acronyms here. Use Google if you’re skeptical.

But still, it MIGHT (theoretically) be possible for Americans to live longer, healthier, and less expensive lives, if we put politicians and bureaucrats in charge. And if those brainiacs might do not repeat any of the awful policies in effect at the VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Pentagon, Public Schools, and whoever is in charge of fixing our 41,000 unsafe/collapsing bridges.

This might possibly work. But I’m still skeptical.

I know how Britain and Canada make it work (I’ve been to both countries, but not Australia). They pay doctors and nurses a pittance – which is why so many of their medical professionals aspire to migrate to the USA.

Also, if you live in Britain, you can’t have elective surgery whenever you want. You can get on a waiting list and then cross your fingers. Things like hernia repair. Bunion surgery. Joint replacement. Chronic back pain. Tonsillectomies. Kidney stones. The NHS WILL do something about your appendicitis, but only after watching it fester for weeks and hoping for the best until it takes a turn for the worse.

This is, in fact, how America’s own veterans' administration health care operates. And a contributing factor for why so many vets have untreated PSTD, substance abuse, mental health issues, etc. They’re on some waiting list.

I do want the extra 19 months of life expectancy Brits enjoy. But to achieve that we’d probably have to allow the government to take charge of even MORE (non-healthcare) stuff. Transition us to fewer cars and shorter trips. Re-criminalize narcotics. Use Britain’s weird method of defining live birth or not. Criminalize gun possession (full disclosure – I believe guns should be licensed and insured like automobiles). Restrict the use of ski-doos and personal watercraft. Stop alcohol consumption on college campuses. Arrest and jail all those streetcorner Fentanyl impresarios.

Simply paying American doctors less, and pivoting to Veterans Administration style treatment policies probably won’t get us there. And creating a panic about vaccinations won’t either, Mr. Kennedy. Your dad is probably rolling over in his grave.

I’m just sayin’ . . .

‘The US is failing’: Shocking study of 10 wealthy nations reveals Americans die the youngest, ‘live the sickest lives’ — despite the US spending the most on health care. Here’s the problem

List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia

SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F

@swirlie your hate rant is noted. and upvoted. get a life?