Palestine protests - what to do

I am hearing from one side that National Guard should be called. Given what happened at Kent State in 1970, I think this would make the issue worse. MUCH, MUCH WORSE. Generally, trying to forcefully remove people may seem like you are protecting people, but instead you are making things worse.

On the other hand, these protests have gotten serious and violent. How does one restore safety to campuses without infringing upon rights? We do have rights in the USA. If your campus is closed to students only, you can arrest non students. But if your campus is open (like most universities) - that's tough. I was once escorted off of a college campus for being a non-student. In my case, I walked onto a campus at night, by myself, not knowing I was on a campus. The campus police put me in the back of a police car and drove me off, saying they cannot charge me with anything, but they can warn me that I was trespassing and if I came back on campus without official business they could charge me with trespassing because I have already been warned. Not sure if that was legal, but I didn't test it.

So, what do people like Mike Johnson expect to be done? Clearly there is unchecked antisemitism amongst many of these protesters. And clearly there are non-student agitators joining the crowd. But what many people don't know, is that there are many Jewish people amongst the protesters, also protesting funding Israel's war machine, and the treatment of Palestinians. And they are facing harassment - from fellow jews and other Israel supporters.

I just feel like it is hard to find the truth here. I should point out that I have a Jewish family member who is faculty at Columbia, and she isn't fearful for her life. She seems to be more concerned with having to teach online classes for the rest of the semester.

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Bumbles · 51-55, M

Tent cities aren’t speech and should be removed after clear warning and an opportunity to vacate.

The problem is the notion of safety and inclusiveness. The Universities are trying to have it both ways. They made this bed, now have to lie in it. Jewish students “feel” unsafe, and not without justification. The double standard is awesome or behold.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Bumbles is there a paw against setting up a tent? If so, enforce it.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Bumbles “double standard” by definition cuts two ways. Israel is just as much the beneficiary of the long end.

Bumbles · 51-55, M

@trollslayer Students generally are not allowed to create their own housing on campus. It’s unsafe and unsanitary. I couldn’t tell you what specific rules apply to each campus. Columbia is also private property.

First Amendment analysis distinguishes content from “Time place manner” restrictions i.e., bullhorns in front of hospitals for example.

Bumbles · 51-55, M

@trollslayer Not sure what you mean by Israel benefitting. The double standards is that Jewish students sense of safety and inclusiveness is being ignored. Antisemitism need not be the standard.

If we want to do away with this jumbo jumbo by all means. And have I got a sign and a protest for you…

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Bumbles so columbia, being private, may have more power. What about a public university? Is a tent considered “housing”? Cities have a hard enough time kicking homeless out of parks or medians. I know they are likely to cite sanitation or public safety. Is that “someone feels unsafe” a reason to remove a whole group, if they are not otherwise violating any laws? I work in a building often with scary and sketchy protesters outside. When it gets bad, i am asked to work from home if i feel unsafe, never to they break up the protest.

Bumbles · 51-55, M

@trollslayer I don’t know what local zoning rules are, but I don’t advocate anarchy and open sewers on Campus, and a tent is not speech. If a kid got hurt, who would the parents sue?

My point about feeling safe is that such nonsense was created by Universities but doesn’t seem to apply to to Jewish students. Speech codes have always been problematic from a free speech perspective.

And there are many examples of actual antisemitism, the Columbia Passover notwithstanding.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Bumbles what makes you think it applies unfairly to Jewish students? I am sure the african american community would disagree here.

I agree, I am not for protests or anarchy, either. But legally I wonder what the best course is in the long term . You have to deal with the bad eggs without trampling on the rights of others. Forcefully removing the whole group will only foster more resentment, more antisemitism, and more anger.

Bumbles · 51-55, M

@trollslayer Not sure why plain vanilla protesting has gone out of vogue, but hold a rally, walk in a circle, done and done.

If from what you’ve read Jewish kids should feel safe and included, I raise a glass! I’ve been reading about scary examples from classrooms, calls for intifada, sympathy for Hamas, the destruction of Israel. But I do not have a list, tbh.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Bumbles i am not saying that it hasnt happened, or that it is not horrible. I am saying that you see a double standard because you fail to see the other side.

Are jews regularly pulled over for “driving while jewish”?
What about murdered for jogging thru a rich neighborhood?
Had the cops called on them for getting locked out of their own house?
Harassed and asked to leave a business for looking “suspicious”?

Those people feel unsafe, too, and feel nobody is protecting them.

Bumbles · 51-55, M

@trollslayer We are referring to feeling safe on Campus, but no one is advocating for being pulled over while black. There are no marches against anything that would make any black kid feel unsafe.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Bumbles maybe not at this moment..