The western religious bollocks on the Israeli / Palestinian conflict is crazy 😅😂
Not only religious narratives (which is what many evangelical mainly American Christian lun@tics use on SW) have no right to strip people from their most basic human rights which are their UN recognized right of self determination and right of return which you stand against but even the things they say is totally incorrect. Especially the mother of lies when they say “Palestinians are Arabs who came from modern day Saudi Arabia 1400 years ago “ 🤣😆 What kind of dr*gs do they take ? Should I blame their education system?
Let’s break it down :
Islamic empires expanded Just like Christian empires expanded In fact these are the biggest empires by land mass historically : 1/ British empire (Christian) 2/ mongol empire ( Tengrism and Buddhism ) 3/russian empire (Christian ) 4/ Qing dynasty (Confucianism) 5/ Spanish empire (Christian )
Isn’t it funny that no Islamic empire is among the top 5 biggest empires by land mass? But It’s crucial to know that the world was under empire and dynasty regimes at that time The world being divided into countries is a relatively new concept In fact a lot of modern day countries in Africa are young with no national history “as a country “ with “x borders” these are New boarders created by their European colonial powers before they left.
Who says that countries is the correct way to rule or divide different people ? 1000 years from now there might be another concept that people would consider more “moral “ or more “normal” and they’d look back at the concept of countries today as less moral I’m not justifying empires I’m just saying that that was the norm back then It wasn’t faith that necessarily created empires especially people who say “it’s abrahamic religions fault “ when Literally the Roman Empire was pagan most of its history and it was already expanding and conqu*ring . However, regardless of what the regime is be it Empires or countries or dynasties , ethnically cle@nsing a local population and putting other peoples in their place or apartheid is not the same as their land being part of a bigger empire and that isn’t the definition of empire. When it comes to the Middle East , The Arab Muslim empire that started in modern day west of Saudi Arabia (the rashidun caliphate ) expanded like any other empire around it It didn’t ethnically cleǎnse these populations and told Arabs from Mecca /medina to go and live in their place 😂 literally never happened. I think this is what people tell themselves in their dreams .
They as a matter of fact converted to Islam in a slow conversion process and Arabic gained fevor in that particular spot much later sparkled by many different reasons . However, Iran held onto the Persian language meanwhile others didn’t mostly because they were already under previous colonial powers A lot of people say Egyptians spoke Coptic before Islam but fail to mention Coptic is a hyperdized language between ancient Egyptian and greek (their colonizers ) The ancient Egyptian languages were already dying and going instinct way before Arabs came to them. The Egyptians today are mainly the decedents of ancient Egyptians per genetics studies and they know themselves claim and know that . Also There are still people in Middle East who speak Aramaic and Coptic and all of these other languages.
While The world religious demographic today is heavily shaped due to past empires , Historically speaking, the Islamic empires in general did not enforce Islam on the local people it was mostly a process of conversions due to political influence Same thing under Christian empires With of course incidents of pêrsecution and oppressiøn in both.
All the people today in majority Muslim countries are mostly native peoples who converted to Islam Like from Judaism to Christianity to Islam or from Christianity to Islam Or paganism to Islam and so on Be it by choice or force they are still the natives
Outside of the Middle East , The afghanis are the native people of afghan who converted to Islam They’r not Arabs and they speak their own languages The people of the Maldives are natives who converted to Islam and speak their own languages Indonesians are locals who converted to Islam and have their own language An Albanian Muslim is European who converted to Islam and speaks his own language And so on A Muslim Pakistani is genetically and culturally closer to a Hindu Indian than he is to a Turkish Muslim or a Malaysian Muslim What you are saying here is Let’s go to Muslim lands and ethnically cle&nse their civilians and replace them with people from abroad because I don’t like that They’r majority Muslim . Then I can say the same let’s go to y land and drive their locals away because I don’t like the fact their religion is x. After all a British white Christian or native African shouldn’t be Christian according to ur logic since Christianity comes form the Middle East? Doesn’t make sense .
The last Muslim people who were controlling Palestine were the ottomans . The Ottoman Empire was started by Turks However they didn’t make Turks go in masses to Palestine and replaced the local population . Never happened 😂 they ruled over the local population who endorsed different religions and went to their mosques churches and synagogues and lived next to each other. Palestinians are the local people of that land who converted from Judaism to Christianity to Islam and some remained Jew or Christian .
When the British empire colonized most of the Middle East after the fall of the ottoman Empire Those people were under the British empire responsibility Since the world was shifting from empire regime to countries The colonial powers were across the board cutting lands like a cake and giving them to x person to rule which was what the British doing.
Now under mandate Palestine (under British empire control ) everyone would have expected for Britain to pick someone among the local population and make him rule over the land and Leave Right ? It could have picked a Christian or a Jew for all I care like how Lebanon’s president has to be a Maronite Christian But that’s not what the British did 😅 Why did the people of that land deserve a different fate ? Their own right to live in their own homes ? A European political settler colonial ideaology bribed a British lord (Balfour ) to let them carve a Jewish land out of Palestine (they didn’t care where , they even suggested Argentina and parts of Africa ) and he agreed and he told them to go and make a home there 😂 These Jews aren’t the same as the local Jews who were already living there Nor the Jews who sought legal refugee and lived among the locals These were settler colonists who came from abroad and wanted a land solely for them when it was already occupied with people . For the state of Israel to be created These European Jews (the brown Jews came after Israel was founded and They’r also foreign but these aren’t who founded Israel ) ethnically cleànsed over 750,000 local people and pushed them out from their homes farms jobs community memories etc a holocaust indeed And lived in their place And the ethnic cleánsing continues to this day with the illegal settlements in the remnants of majority Palestinian Territories and slow annexatioñ By the way this happened after the Geneva convention which states that ethnic cleaninğ is illegal and they have yet to compensate and they refuse to let those displaced return they are only doing it more and more .
What if Israel reflected upon this protest ? Like the million other protests ? Would 7th of Oct happened ?
What if Israel stopped breaking a trillion international laws and making USA veto UN resolutions on a yearly basis ? What if Israel stopped giving Palestinians their own versions of 7th Oct every now and then Would their 7th of Oct happened ? Hmmm lol
And I don’t know why people think it happened /happens only to Palestinian Muslims when it happens to all Palestinians including Christians 😂 and Muslims weren’t the only ones who created Palestinian liberation fronts.
And again why do people keep mentioning Hamas as if Hamas is the center of this issue when Hamas is a group that was created out of poverty occupation displacement traumà and by Israel and this issues precedes Hamas . And the West Bank has no Hamas what’s the excuse for the West Bank? Endless excuses to sustain a Naz* regime it seems .
Hamas co founder Ahmed Yasmin speaking :
[media=https://tiktok.com/6961462214570085634]
Israeli rabbi speaking :
[media=https://tiktok.com/7345823266206010630]
Oh and Remember when Nitinyahu used a genocidâl verse from the Bible about the amalek for Gaza ?😅 or is that not religious terrorism?😂😂😂
peace ? Simple. Let the illegally displaced Palestinians return which is what the UN have been saying for years Then Give everyone on the land the right to vote And the Problem is solved . Zionism ceases to exist. But what we have is , Israel denies the right of return despite UN condemnation and setter colonialismm continues Keeps the “majority” of the locals under illegal occúpation and apàrtheid regime with no right to vote although They’r not a country They’r literally under occupatioń meaning they should have a right to vote
Why? Because the moment it does it’s no longer a Jewish supremacy /majority state.
Don’t misunderstand me I do not agree with some of Hamas’s actions but if I’m going to use the terr*rist label I’d have to label Israel and the IDF as terr*rist first that birthed this small baby as a retaliation . this is also the UN’s stance .
Einstein summed it up for us all :
Watch out for the evangelical warmoñgers in the comments They’r gonna come I know it 😂
The american lie that was told to countless school children over many generations is that North America was a mostly an uninhabited continent and Native peoples refused to assimilate an “civilize”, instead choosing to fight the European settlers, so they were relegated to reservations. We know today that is simply false.
Israel teaches a similar premise - that no country really claimed that land, so European Jews moved back to their homeland and valiantly fought off all those who attacked them. Most of the world knows that as not true (and those people are often mislabeled as antisemites).
The reality is that there were a million or more Arabs already living there, and the Jewish settlers scared them into leaving through acts of terror and massacre very similar to what Hamas did on Oct 7th. This is verifiable historical fact.
But now we have a situation where Israel has existed for 80 years with generations being born there, and at this point asking them to leave would be immoral.
*if* israel wants to live side by side in peace (which i don’t know that many israelis do), they must first come to grips with the truth of their own history. People don’t always fight israel simply because they “hate jews”. Hamas and hesbollah happened for a reason - and until that reason is addressed the fighting will continue.
It's an excellent post and very long. I'm going to quibble about a few things.
[quote]Isn’t it funny that no Islamic empire is among the top 5 biggest empires by land mass?[/quote]
Though landmass isn't everything. The Ottoman, Persian and Arab empires were absolutely great powers of their day. Though, I believe that the latter wasn't Islamic. The Mongols/Goldern Horde also conquered a vast landmass.
You are correct that the Ottomans were [i]relatively[/i] benign as imperialists. Also, the period of the Crusades was marked by much greater brutality and zealotry from Christians than from Muslims.
The reason why Christian nations conquered the most people was because Europe advanced technologically more than the rest of the world from at least the 17th century onwards. Also, competition between nations and the promise of riches abroad made it economically beneficial to conquer people outside Europe. Sure Christianity was used as justification but if hadn't been there, they would have invented something else. I don't see it as to do with Christianity but the 'logic' of capitalism coupled with aggressive nationalism.
That history absolutely affects the now. I completely agree that Israel is a modern settler-colonialist state that is doing what the Brits did to native Americans and the Aboriginees, just with F-16s, not rifles or muskets.
@Moon3624 [quote] ’m actually 20 years old Thank you for your kind words though I really hope my age does not deter anyone from taking what I say seriously Sometimes people will not engage with me because of my age [/quote]
Forgive me for my doubts. I am American. Even though we do have some very smart people, the 20 year old American is an absolute dud.
Your familiarity with cultures in Islamic countries around he world is impressive. I concur with your opinion: though people may all be Muslims, the differences in their respective cultures are stark. I have been warmly invited into the prayer hall of a mosque by an Imam in Korea, the way a Christian minister in a church. would without fuss; and yet, a non- Muslim is not allowed to step foot into the same sanctum in Malaysia or Indonesia even if he had performed the ablutions.
I have met Saudis, a couple of women doctors (MDs). They came across as intelligent as any American woman professional I know, and just as self-confident even though they were dressed in Muslim garb. This idea that women in Islamic countries are suppressed is false.
@sree251 That's correct. So referring to Israel as a "colony" isn't accurate.
There are two types of colonies. One type is where the empire seeks to expand. The US and Canada would be examples of this. The other type is where the empire seeks to extract resources. Ghana and India would be examples. The first type tend to be prosperous while the second type generally isn't, or at least has serious obstacles to prosperity.
It should be obvious that Israel was no more a colony of the UK than it was a colony of the Ottoman Empire, as it fits neither of the above two types. However, Israel's settlements in the West Bank would qualify as the first type of colony.
Even though Israel wasn't a colony, it achieved its independence in the early part of the wave of decolonization that began after World War Two (which included India and Pakistan) and continued to 1977 with the independence of Djibouti. I don't count Spanish Sahara as that area was simply transferred from Spain to Morocco, or new countries like Eritrea, South Sudan, and Namibia which were created out of other African countries well after the end of European colonization. If Israel hadn't achieved independence in 1948, it would have sometime in the next decade or two as the UK wasn't going to hang onto the Mandate much longer no matter what.
They're Christians and Catholics, they lie constantly it's what they do. They been doing that since Constantine and Roman Empire days quite literally. You become world religion and you just get weird, and others pay for it, for centuries.
I should clarify that I think all Abrahamic religions are just weird in general though.
I'd like to add that they forget there are Palestinian Christians, not to mention Lebanese Maronite Christians, Greek Christians and Armenian Apostolic Christians in the area.
I don't know if you've seen, but Israel is also trying to force the Armenian Christians out of Jerusalem, despite them having a continuous presence there since circa 301 A.D.
@basilfawlty89 d[quote][quote]on't know if you've seen, but Israel is also trying to force the Armenian Christians out of Jerusalem, despite them having a continuous presence there since circa 301 A.D.[/quote][/quote]
Produce proof of that.
So far, Israel is DEFENDING ITSELF against the raghead animals who attacked it last October.
@HootyTheNightOwl I’d use “wørds “ instead of “w@rds” same for not and worth Cuz @ definitely looks like an “a” But nice try tho but You can never beat the original 😎.
If my post is not worth ur read that’s totally fine I could care less Do I even know u ? My world with you 🌍 My world without you 🌍
I appreciate u telling me that such writing styling bothers you tho I might take it into account in fururistic posts especially considering the elderly who might get confused
@Moon3624 I'm sure that more of the world would appreciate you actually using your proper words rather than that nonsense - especially those who happen to be autistic and dyslexic.
@LeopoldBloom but Jewish people have self determination. Do Palestinians? Last I checked more land has been "settled" in the West Bank the last few months. Call me names if you let me, but I find it ridiculous that a family of Palestinians who've lived on their home for centuries can get evicted and their land taken by someone who a year ago converted to Judaism.
@basilfawlty89 Palestinians should have self-determination. But they can't have Israel. The question of the Jewish state's existence should be off the table, same as questioning the existence of Ghana or Paraguay or Bhutan or any other country.
Israel's settlement policy is a disaster not just because it evicts Palestinians from what could eventually be a Palestinian state, but also because it adds another complication to any future agreement. In addition to the new state's borders, who controls Jerusalem, security, and what happens to the Palestinian refugees in other countries, now we have to figure out what happens to the West Bank settlers, too.
Don't be so sure that Palestinians have been there for "centuries." Many Palestinians are descended from Arabs who migrated to the area from the surrounding countries around the same time European Jews began arriving in the late 19th century. That doesn't make them illegitimate, but it's incorrect to characterize this conflict as anything similar to the US Army vs. Geronimo. Both sides are composed of indigenous and immigrants, and both have a right to the same land.
@Moon3624 Excellent. I don't agree 100% with everything in your post, but I appreciate that it is well thought out and adds to the discussion.
I feel that the Jewish population is so traumatized by the Holocaust and various stories from history that they cling to the "never again" mantra as an excuse to demand different treatment. I'm not necessarily faulting this - I am calling it for what it is. Netanyahu's tweet that you posted is quite contradictory. Claim you are not a settlement colony, but then make a very ethnocentric admission that you are "Western civilization" in an area that is CLEARLY NOT THE WEST.
And I find it odd that the whole "birthright" thing is not more often seen for what it is. You can't say on one hand that you give special preference for Jewish ancestry, and on the other hand claim to be a Democracy of equal rights. The argument they make is "there are arab/muslim israelis too". Well, do they get to go on a birthright and make aliah?
@trollslayer Ur right but I wanna comment on something
“ I feel that the Jewish population is so traumatized by the Holocaust and various stories from history that they cling to the "never again" mantra as an excuse to demand different treatment”
There are a lot of anti Israel Jews Also majority of Zionists are evangelical Christians. The Zionist makeup is majority Christian. And honestly Jews were not the only victims. Historically speaking , many people have been genøcided and oppressed including by Jews. A lot of people also forget that Jews were pioneering in the slavery industry . If what’s happened/happening to Palestinians is done to Germans instead I’d be a tiny bit more understanding . Either way I don’t see how the holocaust has anything to do with the issue of Palestine since it precedes the holocaust But if you wanna be understanding by all means let them ethnically cleanse ur people and give them ur land don’t dump ur European guilt on other people please .
@Moon3624 Displaced aggression. It's like when you date someone whose ex was abusive to them. They see their ex in your face, and treat you like an enemy.
My view is that the nazi "holocaust" was the culmination of a system that existed in Europe, primarily eastern Europe, for decades prior to the Nazis. The "Balfour declaration" was probably the UK's answer to the "Jewish Problem", in the sense that if we support a homeland for Jewish people they will quit bothering everyone else. It wasn't "we are such good people we are helping the Jews get their own country" as much as "have some land we couldn't care about and then go away". I don't think the international support really showed up in force until after WWII. The "western" world as Bibi calls it, saw (and sees) Israel as a "settler colony", because they viewed (and view) the Arabs in the region much like they viewed native peoples elsewhere - that they area "uncivilized", "3rd world", "tribal", etc. I think many Christians see this as a spread of "civilization" to an area they think is "uncivilized". You see this in the language being used today: "Support Israel they are the only Democracy in the middle east!". It's really just ethnocentrism.
