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The Trouble With 25.

Section 4:

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

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It's not difficult to imagine a scenario in which an intensely loyal (perhaps advantageous) FBI Director warns the president that the Veep and the Cabinet are thinking about invoking the 25th Amendment. The Director informs the president who in the Cabinet are leaning in that direction.

So the president then fires five members of the Cabinet and appoints lackeys. He also fires the acting Cabinet secretaries in case the Senate stalls on confirmation hearings. Finally, he warns the Veep that if he persists in trying to remove him from office, he'll have the party loyalists dump him from the ticket for re-election.

The House immediately moves to impeach but the Senate can't muster a 2/3 vote to convict. The Veep resigns in disgust and the FBI Director is nominated for the office of vice president.

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This is why I propose that Congress move to amend the 25th Amendment and allow the Vice President to specify that a recently fired Cabinet officer will be the one to vote on whether to remove the president, not the president's lackey. POTUS shall not be allowed to stack the deck in his or her favor.

While they're at it, fix the presidential line of succession to put SecDef, Sec Homeland Sec and the AG above the Treasury Sec. In fact, leave it at those three (plus State as the top of the Cabinet list). Leave the other Cabinet secretaries out of it and put state governors in the mix. Not necessarily the governors of the biggest states, but perhaps the chair of the National Governors' Conference (if vacant, all remaining governors can vote to name a new chair).

[u]My proposed presidential succession line[/u]:
Vice President
Speaker of the House
Majority Leader of the Senate *
Secretary of State
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of Homeland Security
Attorney General
Chair of the National Governors Association
[i]
* That's right. [u]Not[/u] the President pro tempore, who is often the senior most (and often the oldest) member of the majority party.[/i]

This way, even if both houses of Congress could not convene to elect new leaders and even if the Cabinet didn't survive an attack, a governor could become acting president. And if that particular governor did not survive, the remaining governors (including those who succeed to their governorships thru their own state lines of succession) could quickly elect a new Chair of the NGA who would then upon his/her resignation as governor become acting president for the remainder of the current presidential term. In other words, the House electing a new Speaker would not "bump" the acting president. That new acting president would also be the person to submit to the Congress a nomination for an acting vice president, who would also serve until the end of the current presidential term.

While it would take time to have special elections to fill vacant seats, I don't like the idea of having Members of Congress name their own successors, since those persons may or may not be elected officials. State legislatures could elect successors until special elections were held, but perhaps limit the vote to members of the party of the deceased Member of Congress. Again, even that would take time.

Hence it's better to just move on down the line of succession and have an acting president for the remainder of the current president term - and not until the Congress elects a new Speaker. What if the Senate acted first? That person would bump SecState, but then get bumped by the new Speaker.

In a national emergency, it's best for the people to know that the first person surviving in the succession line will be the acting president until the next election (unless death or a Constitutional removal from office).
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The succession doesn't "bump" unless the question is reopened by a new death of the current office holder.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@SomeMichGuy

Oh, it does indeed bump a Cabinet secretary who succeeded.

You'd better read the [u]Presidential Succession Act of 1947[/u].

AN ACT
To provide for the performance of the duties of the office of President in case of the
removal, resignation, death, or inability both of the President and Vice President.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in
Congress assembled, That

(a) (1) if, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify,
there is neither a President nor Vice President to discharge the powers and duties of the
office of President, then the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, upon his
resignation as Speaker and as Representative in Congress, act as President.

(2) The same rule shall apply in the case of the death, resignation, removal from office, or
inability of an individual acting as President under this subsection.

(b) If, at the time when under subsection (a) a Speaker is to begin the discharge of the powers
and duties of the office of President, there is no Speaker, or the Speaker fails to qualify as
Acting President, then the President pro tempore of the Senate shall, upon his resignation as
President pro tempore and as Senator, act as President.

(c) An individual acting as President under subsection (a) or subsection (b) shall continue to act
until the expiration of the then current Presidential term, except that--

(1) if his discharge of the powers and duties of the office is founded in whole or in part on
the failure of both the President-elect and the Vice-President-elect to qualify, then he
shall act only until a President or Vice President qualifies; and

(2) if his discharge of the powers and duties of the office is founded in whole or in part on
the inability of the President or Vice President, then he shall act only until the removal
of the disability of one of such individuals.

[b][c=800000](d) (1) If, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify,
there is no President pro tempore to act as President under subsection (b), then the
officer of the United States who is highest on the following list, and who is not under
disability to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President shall act as
President: Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of War, Attorney
General, Postmaster General, Secretary of the Navy, Secretary of the Interior, Secretary
of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor.[/c][/b]

[b][c=800000](2) An individual acting as President under this subsection shall continue so to do until the
expiration of the then current Presidential term, [big][u]but not after a qualified and prior-
entitled individual is able to act[/u][/big], except that the removal of the disability of an
individual higher on the list contained in paragraph (1) or the ability to qualify on the
part of an individual higher on such list shall not terminate his service.[/c][/b]

(3) The taking of the oath of office by an individual specified in the list in paragraph (1)
shall be held to constitute his resignation from the office by virtue of the holding of
which he qualifies to act as President.

(e) Subsections (a), (b), and (d) shall apply only to such officers as are eligible to the office of
President under the Constitution. Subsection (d) shall apply only to officers appointed, by
and with the advice and consent of the Senate, prior to the time of the death, resignation,
removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, of the President pro tempore, and only to
officers not under impeachment by the House of Representatives at the time the powers and
duties of the office of President devolve upon them.

(f) During the period that any individual acts as President under this Act, his compensation
shall be at the rate then provided by law in the case of the President.

(g) Sections 1 and 2 of the Act entitled ''An Act to provide for the performance of the duties of
the office of President in case of the removal, death, resignation, or inability both of the
President and Vice President'', approved January 19, 1886 (24 Stat. 1; U. S. C., 1940 edition,
title 3, secs. 21 and 22), are repealed.

Approved July 18, 1947.
-----
(emphasis added)
-----

Current law list the succession list in this order:

3 U.S. Code § 19 - Vacancy in offices of both President and Vice President; officers eligible to act

(d)
(1) If, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is no President pro tempore to act as President under subsection (b) of this section, then the officer of the United States who is highest on the following list, and who is not under disability to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President shall act as President: Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, Secretary of the Interior, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Secretary of Transportation, Secretary of Energy, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Secretary of Homeland Security.

[c=003BB2]https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/19[/c]

-----

The Act has since been modified several times to add new Cabinet secretaries to the succession line.

But Cabinet secretaries do indeed get "bumped" as soon as a new Speaker of the House or a President pro tempore of the Senate qualifies and resigns to take the oath of the presidency.

Furthermore, if the Senate President pro tempore succeeded to the office of president due to death and/or inabilities to act of both the president and vice president, along with the death and.or inability of the Speaker of the House to succeed, then the Senate President pro tempore would only act as president until a new Speaker was elected (assuming the new Speaker would then resign to take the oath of the presidency).

My proposal would both shorten the number of Cabinet secretaries in the list, while enlarging it to include a governor.

And it would do away with "bumping" entirely.
@beckyromero

I think the significant part is right after your header-emphasized bit:

[quote][b]except[/b] that

the removal of the disability of an individual higher on the list contained in paragraph (1)

or

the ability to qualify on the part of an individual higher on such list

shall [b]not[/b] terminate his service.[/quote] [i](Emphasis and structural whitespace added.) [/i]

I think that this is specifically intended to
prevent the Presidency from being a froth of claims and counterclaims to the Office, which would paralyze our Executive.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@SomeMichGuy

That is referring to "paragraph (1)".

[quote](1) If, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is no President pro tempore to act as President under subsection (b) of this section, then the officer of the United States who is highest on the following list, and who is not under disability to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President shall act as President: Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, Secretary of the Interior, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Secretary of Transportation, Secretary of Energy, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Secretary of Homeland Security.[/quote]

That section is referring to Cabinet members. A person higher on the list doesn't terminiate the service of the lower ranking Cabinet member.

For example, if SecLabor becomes acting president and then appoints a new SecDef, the new SecDef doesn't bump the acting president/former SecLabor.

But a new President pro tempore of the Senate (or if wounded but not able to have immediately resigned to act as president) WOULD bump up (as would a Speaker bump a President pro tempore of the Senate).

There's also no Constitutional obligation for a Speaker to accept the presidency. But say the Speaker declined. And maybe the President pro tempore of the Senate accepts. But six months later, the Speaker doesn't like the way the acting president is handling things. The Speaker at that point could exercise his/her option to bump the acting president.

That's one of the reasons there have been a number of bills to fix the 25th Amendment and the Presidential Succession Act.

There's also debate over whether the Presidential Succession Act (which is a law passed by Congress) is Constitutional.

Remember all the arguments about the 14th Amendment and Trump and whether the president is an "officer" of the United States?

[quote]Article II, Section 1, Clause 6:

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.[/quote]

The argument against the Speaker or the President pro tempore of the Senate becoming an acting president would be that Members of Congress are not "officers" of the United States.
@beckyromero Oops! Cruised through it too quickly!

I have to read the commentary @ LXII
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@SomeMichGuy

The other thing needed cleaned up is "resigning." The Speaker or the President pro tempore of the Senate has to resign before they can become acting president.

But once they resign, they are technically no longer in the line of succession.

Better wording would need an Amendment to say something to the effect that taking the oath of office as acting president automatically andi immediately removes them as the Speaker or the President pro tempore of the Senate and vacates their seat in Congress.
@beckyromero I think THAT makes a lot of sense, because it avoids having to always have a single document which would say, e.g.,

"I, <name>, in assuming the President pursuant to <specific citation> hereby set aside my posts as <appointed post> and <citizen-elected post>, as required."

An amendment which says that a person can only serve in one branch of government *or government-related activity* at a time, and that taking any position in another branch *or government-related activity* terminates any prior position, effective immediately.

("Government-related activity" is meant to contemplate things such as being in the Federal Reserve, etc.)

But I am loath to have your too Defense-heavy list replace the existing one. Tilting the list toward hawks is not what succession is intended to do, and your lidt could embolden a group opposed to a more dove-ish President, say. The succession is supposed to make transitions smooth through being pre-defined, not encourage assassination as a tool of side-stepping the electorate.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@SomeMichGuy [quote]But I am loath to have your too Defense-heavy list replace the existing one. Tilting the list toward hawks is not what succession is intended to do, and your lidt could embolden a group opposed to a more dove-ish President, say. The succession is supposed to make transitions smooth through being pre-defined, not encourage assassination as a tool of side-stepping the electorate.[/quote]

The mostly likely scenarios that would bring about us having to go that deep into the succession list, not necessarily in this order, are::

1) Nuclear confrontation with a major power on Earth
2) An attack from an extraterrestrial world
3) a catastrophic meteor hit
4) a ranging pandemic far worse than Covid

I didn't put the CJCS on the list because we need to keep civilian authority over the military. But we'll need someone who is defense-orientated. Not the Secretary of the Interior.
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