Yes, SOME of the blame has go to to teachers. I've subbed for a teacher who was suspended for punching a student. I subbed for another who grabbed a student by the front of the shirt and lifted him up in anger. Teachers aren't perfect.
Thing is, all the degrees in the world do not prepare a person to TEACH. If you ask ANY teacher, he/she will tell you that the real teaching training begins the first time the candidate faces the classroom. If you see a teacher who has been on the job for more than ten years, that is a VALUABLE part of the system, because that person has had training that NO university can provide.
The other problem is, it is the teacher's job to TEACH, not manage a bunch of idiots who were never properly raised by their parents, who don't want to be there and who think nothing of disrupting the class.
And for a lot of you goose stepping NaziLibs, it's not a race thing.
I've subbed at many inner city black-ish schools were most of the student body was black, (one school in particular where the front office gave us a sheet outlining the fact that a lot of the boys were actually the man of the house. That actually happened.) This little black hoodlums were raised by THESE entitled thug parents.
By the same token I've subbed at some predominately white schools with almost a MIRROR IMAGE of the same misbehavior and lack of parental guidance. And the schools didn't always wind up in low income neighborhoods.
So it's NOT about race or color. Unlike racist liberals (yeah, I know, that's a redundancy) I am colorblind when it comes to education. I've subbed at one inner city elementary school where the kids (mostly black) were as well behaved as college students. I've subbed at rich schools (with kids driving up in Porsches) where I wanted to break a chair over the head of an entitled piece of shit who won't shut up.
Oh, and in some areas that are predominately Latino, I was surprised at how well behaved the kids were. Turns out, as a culture their parents would whip the shit out of them if they acted up in class. So it's not about national origin, either.
Most of the problems in education are about negligent parents.
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Is it their job to teach? Is that all teachers are supposed to do?
The state employs strangers with a university degree (teachers) to help raise and shape the offspring of those who have produced the offspring. A teacher's job is to be a part-time carer while the parent is compelled to delegate their care, and the state ensures the child will be managed in society. Some are not managed in society, and that is partly because of this method.
@sascha Frankly, the ONLY job teachers should have to do is TEACH. That's it. And that's a lot. A teacher should not have to raise an uncivilized brat, or put up with it disrupting class. You can argue whether or not the concept of public education (which was designed to create a literate class that serves the state, with all religion removed from the mix). That's pretty much the Horace Mann model. Thing is, public schools have been around since the early 19th Century. We're stuck with them. All we can do is make them work.
@Reason10 By "teaching", are you only referring to academic subjects, and anything existing in the curriculum? There are many things to teach children, but everything important is innate. Sometimes, it has to be regained, or you have to make sure they never lose sight of it.
If teachers spend time in a closed environment with children for several hours, five times a week, and most of the year, they have to tolerate the personalities they come with. This is the cost to the delegation of care, and parents not being the sole teacher.
@sascha You definitely sound like you (a) have never taught a class or (b) never knew an experienced teacher who did. I allow that blue state schools have all the time in the world to "tolerate" personalities and indoctrinate the young skulls full of mush into whatever Socialist agenda their teacher's union mandates. Here in Florida, we have the highest standards in the country. There is almost enough time for the ACADEMIC subjects (math, reading, writing, history, geography, the arts, PE, civics). Students here learn very quickly that life is too complicated for society to cater to whatever knucklehead whims they may develop. They have to be prepared for adulthood, or college, and there just isn't enough time to do that ANY cater to their dumbass ideas. That's why they are in school. They don't know anything and they are there to learn. Too bad blue state idiots were never properly educated.
@Reason10 What do blue states say about tolerating personalities? It seems to me that if you are with a group of children for this amount of time, you will have to tolerate who they are. When people are conceived and then born, they will develop personality features. Some of these features are predetermined, and with us forever. At least half of our personality characteristics are inherited, with environment being responsible for the rest of it.
America is a place for individuals, right? You should have subbed for schools in Asia if you are looking for something else.
@sascha @sascha [b][c=003BB2] It seems to me that if you are with a group of children for this amount of time, you will have to tolerate who they are[/c][/b] Nope. That's not a teacher's job. Oh, and children are GROWING and probably will not be the same personality the NEXT YEAR, much less in adulthood. Blue states care more about safe spaces and participation trophies than producing educated children. Florida doesn't. That's why we have the best schools in the country.
[b][c=003BB2]When people are conceived and then born, they will develop personality features. Some of these features are predetermined, and with us forever[/c][/b]
The more you add to this post, the more it looks like you've been locked in a room for most of your life because most people CAN'T be that stupid. Everything a child is, every PERSONALITY is achieved by environment. ALL behavior is learned. A baby basically cries, eats and shits. Everything a child achieves is what HE OR SHE learned. [b][c=003BB2] America is a place for individuals, right? You should have subbed for schools in Asia if you are looking for something else.[/c][/b]
A couple of things: 1. ALL schools (including public schools) are about as anti-INDIVIDUAL as it gets. That's the nature of putting a teacher in front of a classroom with 30 some students, rather than the state paying for one teacher per student. The idea of raising a child is communicating the fact that the world doesn't revolve around the one child, the one spoiled brat. At least Florida schools make an effort in that direction
2. Your extremist goose stepping left wing ideology is the most anti individual philosophy in the world. You are a collectivist Socialist. Individualism is kryptonite to your ideology.
3. (Feel free to correct me on this if I'm wrong about abortion. ) You are pro ABORTION. (You call it pro-choice, but it's pro abortion.) It's strange that you would acknowledge that PEOPLE are conceived, not useless masses of tissue. I actually agree with your statement that PEOPLE ARE CONCEIVED.
@Reason10 "not their job"? It is their job to "teach", which includes all forms of teaching and training, children who are not theirs.
Our most important behaviors are never learned. Everything that we need is already there, and our paths may already be determined. Our genetics determine our response to our environments, and we were given the knowledge that we have. I take credit for nothing. Everything I have has been given by another person, like my parents, the Creator, or my children. The frustration my youngest child, a six-month-old baby, expresses when she is trying to hold a sensory ball firmly in both hands but doesn't quite have the grip or strength to hold it for long before it drops, has not been learned. And, no one taught her to get excited when she sees these toys. I have never seen such pure joy or excitement, except that on the faces of little children.
You have admitted that schools are about beating the individual out of us, so you know that this is part of your job. Not only about education, is it?
