A hypothetical question for about 4,000+ kids, who were born into open-air jail, and died inside it, since Oct 7th, having never left the . They had no choice. They had no choice in the Hamas attack and they had no choice in the Israeli response.
They lived their entire short life inside a crowded 25 miles long x 3.5/7.5 mile wide flat piece of land, never once allowed to leave it.
That's pretty fucking depressing when you think of it.
@Northwest You said: "They lived their entire short life inside a crowded 25 miles long x 3.5/7.5 mile wide flat piece of land, never once allowed to leave it.
That's pretty fucking depressing when you think of it."
Thank you for a thoughtful response. You placed yourself in the position of the folks in Gaza, people who are forced to live in conditions worse than those of farmed animals that live in safe conditions, fed and protected until they are slaughtered. People in blockaded Gaza are left to their own devices to survive until they are slaughtered. Most of them have no vested interest in supporting either side of the conflict.
They are being oppressed by Hamas as much as by Israel, if not more so. The adults are falling them.
Notice how I described the situation, not who's behind it. The point is that when you take away all the finger-pointing, and political considerations, the facts are simple: For decades, more than 2 million people, have been loving in a strip of desert-like land, 25 miles x 3.5 miles to 7.5 miles at its widest, for decades. The kids dying today, have never been outside that jail.
No matter who's responsible, and there's plenty to blame, is this an acceptable situation?
@Northwest You said: "No matter who's responsible, and there's plenty to blame, is this an acceptable situation?"
Obviously, it's not acceptable but the situation persists. And we create and maintain such situations because it work for us regardless of the price others have to pay. The rich doesn't care about the poor, Everybody is out for himself.
@sree251 This particular situation, is far more complex to be addressed through philosophy.
Hamas is an Islamic organization that will only be satiated through the establishment of Muslim rule over the Holy Lands, and the ethnic cleansing of Jews and possibly Christians as well.
On the flip side, the parties financing the carnage need to exercise their power, to put an end to the carnage.
@Northwest You said: "This particular situation, is far more complex to be addressed through philosophy."
Ok, you are right in pointing this out. Philosophizing is a cop out. We need practical urgent response. Right now, the only actor capable of responding is Israel wielding the big stick in the manner of the US. Might is right. The carnage will end when the resistance is completely wiped out. Won't this be a sight when Gaza is under control of Israel. It will be like South Africa under white rule. Submit or die.
@Northwest You said: "You persist in politicizing. This is not going to solve the problem."
I am not politicizing. I am pointing to the misery we can cause by subjugating others with our power to do so. It is Israel today, the Germans in WW2, the Dutch in South Africa. This is typical of our human mentality since forever. Can the Palestinians do this if they had the power? Probably, yes. Same deal, different actors.
Hamas is an Islamic organization that will only be satiated through the establishment of Muslim rule over the Holy Lands, and the ethnic cleansing of Jews and possibly Christians as well.
I think it's funny that the Zionists have been doing exactly that since 1948, and yet when a retaliatory group has coalesced against them, they're threatened that the same might happen to them so they've wiped out hospitals and churches and mosques. They just don't like a taste of their own medicine so they're gonna use this threat as an excuse to conduct mass genocide.
Now, say that Hamas started bombing Israeli hospitals and such and use the Palestinian ethnic cleansing that has been happening for decades as an excuse to conduct mass genocide, they're suddenly terrorists? Lol. Doesn't add up.
@assemblingaknob you seem to think you have the whole thing figured out, You don’t.
Hamas is not a resistance group striving to help create an independent home for Palestinians. Its only objective is to establish an extreme Theocracy, much like ISIS wanted to.
The only objective of their Oct 7th, is to draw the predictable Netanyahu response.
The only chance for peace, is for Palestinians to reject Hamas and Israel to reject Netanyahu and his religious freaks, and for the US Jesus freaks to stay the fuck out of the way .
@Northwest are you insinuating that Palestinian citizens have any say in this? Lol. You think you have it all figured out, when it's more complex than that. But if you gotta talk about it, the only chance for peace is a brutal execution of Natenyahu. THEN the dissolution of Hamas and any other groups. Hamas is a consequence of the Zionist terrorism on Palestine since nakba. The problem with US and Israel is, they strike a people and don't expect them to resist. If they do, it's offensive and requires carpet bombing of the whole country. But noooooo, let's just stay fixated on Hamas. If Israel doesn't stop with it's motherfu.ckery, guerilla groups shall keep emerging. With a variety of ideologies.
@Northwest oh yeah let's insult someone personally because they don't agree with your opinions as what you stated as a solution isn't even practical lol.
So yeah, here's the Zionist agenda unfolding right in front of you, but boohoo we need to condemn Hamas it will solve EVERYTHING!!!
oh yeah let's insult someone personally because they don't agree with your opinions
I don't mind disagreements, what I mind is when you invent shit, and use it as a strawman, especially when the intellectually bankrupt individual, and by that I mean you, thinks that a not so creative copy and paste job will do it.
So when you post this:
The only chance for peace, is for Palestinians to reject Hamas
When in fact, this is what I said:
The only chance for peace, is for Palestinians to reject Hamas and Israel to reject Netanyahu and his religious freaks, and for the US Jesus freaks to stay the fuck out of the way .
You prove my point about your reading comprehension. I call them like they show themselves to be.
@assemblingaknob How has Israel been "ethnically cleansing" anything, since 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs, and the population in Gaza and the West Bank is higher than it was in 1967? And it's not "genocide" unless every war is "genocide." There is no intention to wipe out every Palestinian. Meanwhile, Hamas' stated goal is to kill every Jew in Israel. If "genocide" is defined by intentions, they're guilty of it. If it's defined by actions, then neither side is.
@sree251 Israel's actions in Gaza allows Jew-haters to say "oh, I don't hate Jews, I hate Zionism" or "Israel bad because they're bombing children." It's the one aspect of modern liberalism I don't like - the knee-jerk conclusion that victims of oppression are automatically virtuous. Israel is "white colonialism" (even though a majority of Israeli Jews are refugees from the Arab world and look like Arabs), while Palestinians are "brown indigenous" and therefore any atrocity they commit is part of the "resistance" and is therefore excusable.
Israel's actions in Gaza allows Jew-haters to say "oh, I don't hate Jews, I hate Zionism" or "Israel bad because they're bombing children." It's the one aspect of modern liberalism I don't like - the knee-jerk conclusion that victims of oppression are automatically virtuous.
Victims of oppression are victims of oppression. You're admitting that they are victims of oppression, as well as oppression is taking place. I don't care if they're the love children of Ghanidi and Mother Theresa, or Manson disciples. The key term here is oppression.
It's also a surrender to propaganda.. The largely Muslim crowds demonstrating in Europe's capitals, are not drawing a clear line between Hamas and actual victims of oppression, because Hamas is a also a primary oppressor of the Palestinian people.
However, saying that Israel needs to stop the carnage , and calling it what it is, does not automatically brand someone as a Jew hater.
@Northwest It goes beyond just calling for a cease-fire. People are expressing sympathy with Hamas and opposing the existence of Israel as a country. I don't think this will have any effect on government policy, and eventually when the war ends, people will move on to other concerns. But it does show how many people feel.
People are expressing sympathy with Hamas and opposing the existence of Israel as a country.
Yes, of course. Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis, and all Islamic militant entities, want their brand of Islam to "liberate" Jerusalem.
There is hope for Iran, as it seems as the average Iranian wants to free themselves from the Mullahs, but the others need to be neutralized, just not the way Netanyahu is going about it now, tossing the baby out with the bathwater.
Let's also not forget that the Netanyahu brand of Israelis also want to kick non-Jews out of the land of Israel, from the river to the sea (the same slogan Rashida Tlaib is using), dead or alive.
