Suicide in Gaza.

@Spoiledbrat Who knows? You come into a world without choice. You would not care about why Israel pose such conditions. You have nothing to do with it. You are just caught in a bad place. You cannot even run away. You are trapped.

@Spoiledbrat Because Israel is facing people who want to obliterate them and are taking every opportunity to do so. This conflict would end if Hamas surrendered.

@LeopoldBloom um. Nope. It wouldn't end. This conflict is older than Hamas so stop using Hamas as a crutch to defend Israel's actions.

@assemblingaknob Of course it's older. It goes back at least to 1948 when the surrounding Arab countries immediately declared war on Israel the moment the British withdrew. But right now, Hamas is the only active belligerent. Notice that none of the other Arab countries have come to Gaza's defense. They've accepted that Israel isn't going anywhere even if they won't say it out loud. One reason for the timing of the Oct. 7 attack was to derail the Israel-Saudi Arabia negotiations.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "Notice that none of the other Arab countries have come to Gaza's defense."

The entire world has come to Gaza's defense. It doesn't have to be in the form of military attack. Geopolitically, Israel has wrecked its standing as a civilized modern state. US backing of Israel's venting of its fury on Gaza's population destroyed America's credibility as peacekeeper in a fractious world.

@sree251 By "defense," I mean attacking Israel. People marching in solidarity with Hamas isn't going to change anything. In the short term, a few countries have pulled their ambassadors, and the Israel-Saudi agreement has been delayed.

There is going to be pressure on Israel when the war is over to not return to the status quo. My solution would be for Israel to unilaterally grant independence to West Bank and Gaza, with no concessions to impossible sticking points like control of East Jerusalem or a right of return. Most of the hatred of Israel today is in connection with the occupation, so ending that would take away a major complaint against them. Most people are embarrassed to admit that they hate Israel because they hate Jews; without the Occupied Territories, that's all that they'd have left.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "My solution would be for Israel to unilaterally grant independence to West Bank and Gaza, with no concessions to impossible sticking points like control of East Jerusalem or a right of return."

Israel is in no position to grant anything. Without western support, Israel cannot exist and could never have been created in the first place. The present war on Gaza is enabled by western powers. It is basically a conflict between the west and the Arabs/Muslims in the Middle-East. This is my take. Much blood has been shed since 1948, and the festering wound persists. Neither side would or could give in.

Israel is a project of European Jews. It has something to do with the "chosen people"and the "promised land" vision of Zionism. Perhaps, you have an opinion on this.

@sree251 It's not opinion, it's fact. There has always been a Jewish community in what is now Israel for thousands of years. There has been an Arab one for the same period. Zionism, or the creation of a Jewish state, was initiated by European Jews in the mid to late 19th century. While various locations were proposed, the one that made the most sense was the area that Jews had historically originated from. However, many early Zionists, like Theodore Herzl, were atheists, so not all Zionists use the justification of "God's promise" or "the chosen people." By the late 19th century, European Jews began emigrating to the area and joining the Yishuv that was already there. By the early 20th century, Arabs from the surrounding areas also began emigrating there, for the jobs in agriculture and construction that were available. So both groups include people descended from immigrants, and both have a legitimate historical claim to the land.

The current war isn't "enabled" by the western powers; it would continue without their involvement. Israel does of course get military aid from the US, just as Hamas, Hezbollah, and other groups get aid from Iran, Qatar, and other countries. It's not entirely a proxy war, however.

I'm not aware of anything preventing Israel from declaring that West Bank and Gaza are an independent Palestinian state. Obviously, it would be a failed state from the beginning without massive economic aid; this would have to be closely supervised to ensure that it was used for economic development and not warfare. Maybe someone who is an expert in international law could weigh in.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "By the early 20th century, Arabs from the surrounding areas also began emigrating there, for the jobs in agriculture and construction that were available. So both groups include people descended from immigrants, and both have a legitimate historical claim to the land."

We all, as humanity rather than arabs or Jews, have legitimate claim to land wherever we may settle on. There is enough room for everyone. Establishing arbitrarily what Jews think is their homeland and push Palestinians out is not right. The Brits had no authority to enable that scheme. This was the root of the problem. Jews are exacerbating that problem by use of force, and they pay a heavy price in terms of coming across as the bad guys. Just as South Africa ruled by the whites, who also had nuclear weapons, had fallen, so will the Jews in Palestine. Until then, they are not accepted by the world community. Damn the politics, I just don't like violent bullies, whoever they are, dictating terms. It's not about rights. It's about proper manners in relationship.

@sree251 The original partition plan was based on where the two communities lived. Even in 1947, a unified Jewish-Arab state wasn't possible. It's even less of a possibility today.

I oppose Israel's settlement policy and any plan to "push Palestinians out." It doesn't matter if someone's ancestors migrated there in the 1930s, they live there today and are entitled to stay where they are. If your solution requires Israel's destruction, you're just as bad as the people you're condemning. Also, the situation in Israel has very little in common with South Africa. For one thing, there's no racial component in Israel, and both groups are composed of a mix of indigenous and immigrants.

"Proper manners" includes not engaging in terrorism.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "Proper manners" includes not engaging in terrorism."

If you spat on me, I must not spit on you back. This is the only way to break the cycle of violence and get you to come around. Tit for tat is mindless and makes things worse. I am ashamed that the US sees this as civilized behavior.

Wrong as the British were in creating Israel for European Jews, those Jews themselves seized that opportunity to establish their colony against all resistance from the Palestinians. It has been a constant battle since. You may insist that there is no racial component in Israel but the rest of the world don't see it that way. We Americans also insist that we are non-racist and an inclusive nation of migrants but this flies in the face of reality.

The excuse for creating a homeland for the Jews in Palestine is to provide a haven for Jews facing anti-semitism and persecuted in Europe. Jews are still thriving in Europe, UK and the US just as they had been thriving since their migration from the Middle East. Now, there are more Jews in the west than here are in Israel today. Israel is project of Zionism, an ideology that I am not familiar with.

@sree251 The fastest way to end this is for Hamas to surrender and engage in discussions with Israel in good faith. It's a non-starter if they insist on having the entire country "from the river to the sea." That ship has sailed.

Britain didn't create Israel for European Jews. European Jews had been moving there since the Ottoman days and had been pushing for their own country even before that. And they faced resistance from the entire Arab world, not just Palestinians. The unique Palestinian identity didn't exist until at least the 20s or 30s. Prior to that, an Arab in that area would have referred to themselves as a Syrian. And just as many Israeli Jews are descended from immigrants to the area, so are many modern Palestinians. For example, the common surname al-Masri literally means "the Egyptian." The majority of Israeli Jews aren't even European; they're Mizrahi who emigrated there in the late 1940s when 900,000 of them were ethnically cleansed from their communities in the Arab world. This is why there are only 15,000 Jews in MENA outside of Israel. Meanwhile, there are 2 million Arab Israeli citizens, descended from Arabs who remained there in 1948 during the war of independence.

Jews may be thriving today in Europe and the US, but that doesn't negate the need for Israel. As I'm sure you're aware, Jews faced centuries of persecution in Europe, culminating in the Holocaust.

Since you're unfamiliar with Zionism, I'll explain what it is. Zionism is the belief that Jews are entitled to self-determination in their ancestral homeland. Once Israel was established, Zionism ceased to be necessary as that goal had been achieved. So Zionism in its original sense is as meaningful as someone calling themselves a Ghanaist or Bolivianist or Canadaist. Israel is the only country whose right to exist is questioned. However, the meaning of Zionism has changed. The positive meaning is someone who thinks Israel does have a right to exist as a Jewish homeland. The negative meaning is to refer to a straw man who thinks Israel has the right to oppress Palestinians for its own evil purposes. When someone today refers to themselves as a Zionist, it's usually in the first sense, and when someone is called a Zionist, it's in the second.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "Zionism is the belief that Jews are entitled to self-determination in their ancestral homeland."

Everybody is entitled to a homeland. It's a case of musical chairs. The music has stopped and the Jew is left standing. You can't just kick someone off his chair because you are entitled to it. Do you understand?

The ethnic cleansing of Jews in the Arab world could be true. I have known non-Arab Muslims in Asia who regard Jews as "not kosher". To me, that is religious nonsense but that's the way it is. So, you could be right about Jews having a hard time in pre 1948 Middle East on account of this muslim attitude. Anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe stemmed from something else. I cannot put my finger on it because I have no unpleasant personal experience with regard to them. They do have a significant political presence in the US. Good for them; after all, they succeeded in free competition with other Americans.

@sree251 It never was Palestinian land exclusively. Arabs, Jews, Druze, Bedouins, and others lived there for centuries if not longer. And there was never a Palestinian state in that area. The first opportunity Palestinians had for self-determination was the 1947 UN partition plan, in which the land was divided based on where people lived. Palestinians were "kicked off their land" during the Israeli war of independence, when they were attacked by Arab armies with the goal of finishing what Hitler started. This wasn't successful, and Israel ended up capturing more land than the original partition entitled them to. Ironically, if the Palestinian and Arab leadership had accepted the UN plan, the Palestinians would have had their own country all this time, and it would be larger than anything they can hope to get now.

It's a historical fact that over 900,000 Mizrahi Jews were ethnically cleansed from their communities in the Arab world after Israel was created, and most of them ended up in Israel. They appear Arabic and even they and Palestinian Arabs can't reliably tell each other apart. Most of the Jews in the US are Ashkenazi, from eastern Europe.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "Most of the Jews in the US are Ashkenazi, from eastern Europe."

American Jews are anything but Jews. They are just like other white guys to me. I could be wrong because who knows what they are when celebrating ros hashanah with their folks. It's the same deal with the Chinese American. Culture runs deep. The American Jew would rather be in New York, Florida, or California than in Israel. So, this homeland for Jews is a weird and willful project. The Palestinians (including Jews, Christians, and others) in the "Holy Land" are wedded to the soil. Displacing them to make way for realizing Herzl's European Jewish dream is akin to kicking a tortoise out of its shell. It is selfish and cruel.

Arabs rejection of European Jews taking over their lands has nothing to do with Hitler's ideology. If you are talking about anti-semitism in Europe, the Germans are not the only people who resented Jews. The English, French, and Russians had similar issues with Jews. This is a peculiar phenomenon.

Israel has been successful in beating off Arabs resistance to their presence since 1948 in all the wars they fought only because they have been shored up by the UK and the US. I have been watching documentaries of those wars from1948 to 1973. It was obvious to me that Israel warfighting style has the same polish of western war machines honed in the conflicts of two world wars not to mention the financial backing and arm supplies from the US. On her own, Israel is no Mighty Mouse. If Arab countries are not coming forward to defend the Palestinians, it is because Uncle Sam's military assets are on site to deter them from entering the fray.

@sree251 What you're missing is that there has always been a Jewish presence in what is now Israel, in an unbroken line going back to antiquity. Since you're completely ignorant of Jewish culture and don't think American Jews are even "Jewish" by some weird standard you've made up, you really aren't qualified to discuss this. Israel has always been the Jewish homeland. The original immigrants purchased land from the Ottomans or Arab landowners. The only violent displacements of Palestinians occurred during wartime. I'm talking about originally; more recently, West Bank settlements have displaced Palestinians. I'm opposed to Israel's settlement policy and would support making US military aid contingent on Israel ending it.

Arab rejection of Jewish immigration to Israel was based on Arab supremacy and the relegation of non-Muslims to dhimmi status, where Jews and Christians were only allowed to live in Muslim countries if they paid a special tax and consented to various restrictions, like not riding horses or living in two-story houses, to avoid being "above" a Muslim. About the only good thing you can say about the history of Jews in MENA is that it wasn't as bad as Europe, which isn't saying much.

The Arab countries are more interested in Israel today as a high-tech trading partner. Other than Iran, there's no interest in pushing the Jews into the sea as there has been in the past. It's not just fear of American military might, but a recognition that past attempts to wipe Israel out have failed.

However, the Palestinian question has to be addressed and the only possible solution is an independent Palestinian state. This will only be possible when the Palestinian leadership is willing to recognize Israel's existence and focus on their own development, rather than an impossible dream of "from the river to the sea" which they never had in the past.

@LeopoldBloom You said:"However, the Palestinian question has to be addressed and the only possible solution is an independent Palestinian state."

Seems to me that an independent Palestinian state implies one thing: telling Palestinians to give up their homeland which has now been appropriated to become Israel for Jews. How would you like it if I were to take possession of your home because my grandfather used to owned it, and tell you to made do with building another home on land set aside for you in the backyard?

I suppose the Jews, who want Israel, have to persist in asserting their right to take Palestinian land to form Israel regardless of the resistance from any quarter. The alternative for a peaceful resolution is obvious. It does behoove them to win the hearts and minds of Palestinians and work out an equitable way to live together. They could even offer to give up the idea of Israel and come up with a name for a homeland for everyone in the state of "Holy Land". A secular constitution that protects the practice of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. What do you think of this idea?

@sree251 It's not a Palestinian homeland and never was one. You seem to be following the historically ignorant view that Palestinians are native to that area while Jews are foreign invaders. In reality, both groups include indigenous and foreign elements. However, both of them have lived there for a while and are entitled to stay there as they both have legitimate claims to the land. Until you educate yourself on Israeli history and stop seeing this as a Middle Eastern version of the US Army fighting the Lakota, you're not qualified to discuss this.

Given the events of Oct. 7, the only viable option is two separate states. I'd love to see the federation of self-governing cantons proposed by former president Rivlin, but neither side wants or is ready for that. The solution is a separate Palestinian state consisting of Gaza and the West Bank alongside Israel.

It sucks that some Palestinians were displaced in 1948 when the Arab armies attacked Israel with the goal of obliterating it, and Israel not only won, it captured more land. You're going to have to accept the fact that Israel isn't going anywhere. But for its own long term welfare, it needs to separate itself from Palestine and grant the people their independence.

@LeopoldBloom You said: "It's not a Palestinian homeland and never was one. You seem to be following the historically ignorant view that Palestinians are native to that area while Jews are foreign invaders."

The Palestinians, along with other people including Jews, ARE native to that area whereas European Jews are not. Israel is a project of European Jews who have occupied land of natives to that area to form Israel.

You said: "Until you educate yourself on Israeli history and stop seeing this as a Middle Eastern version of the US Army fighting the Lakota, you're not qualified to discuss this."

There is no Israeli history. Israel did not exist until it was created in 1948. It is fascinating to observe how you can assert something that is taken out of the Hebrew Bible (Genesis 32:28). The Israel that God gave to Jacob has no connection to the Israel created by the British and endorsed by the UN in 1947. Is Zionism a religious cult or what?

You said: "Until you educate yourself on Israeli history and stop seeing this as a Middle Eastern version of the US Army fighting the Lakota, you're not qualified to discuss this."

This is not a nice thing to say. You are cancelling me out the way Zionist (European) Jews are cancelling out Palestinians. Unless you see me and you as first among equals, there is no rapport and useful dialogue, the kind that bridges any divide. You don't have the only right view, and neither do I. Assuming that you do, is the real cause of conflict, and the war in Palestine. A supremacist attitude is the problem. You can have your way until you become the underdog and get crushed by a superior force as we saw in Hitler's Germany. The Palestinians in Gaza are getting a dose of what Jews suffered in WW2. Same brutality.