I wish the Right had the balls to do something like this. They're all too pussy to admit that they're far-right because they know they can't defend Authoritarianism with logic.
@BohemianBoo This one guy came out and said he was a rightwing extremist and wanted to debate. This was promising ballseyness but he disappointed I tried to tie him down on race and he talked about 'American Values'. I asked him about his model society and was blathering some shite about negative liberty that he couldn't explain.
I took the piss out of him for obfuscating and he blocked me.
@Burnley123 Yeah, that's what I expect. They always use broad terms like "western values," but they never name those values because they actually oppose western values like democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, legal equality, and so on. And if you try to pin them down, they rage quit.
@BohemianBoo I'd be happy to answer any question you have. Be forwarned, I harbor almost as many far left positions as far right. Since the far right positions ever so slightly outnumber the far left positions, most surveys place me slightly right of center.
But I don't shy from questions and enjoy vigorous debate.
@BohemianBoo Sorry, long travel day and no WiFi on the plane.
Okay, so if you mean democracy in the general sense that like the US and UK have "democracy" at the federal/national level then yes, I do. But I think you and I both know that neither the US nor the UK system is actually democracy.
So, if you mean literally am I pro-{actual}-democracy at the US federal level, then no, I am not. Happy to discuss and/or explain.
@sarabee1995 I think America and the UK have democracy, but our systems could be better. We'd have more democracy if we banned gerrymandering and the electoral college.
[quote]So, if you mean literally am I pro-{actual}-democracy at the US federal level, then no, I am not. Happy to discuss and/or explain.[/quote]
How come? All of the countries with the highest living standards are democracies. Autocracies all have significantly lower living standards.
@BohemianBoo This is why it is so important to define our terms. Of course the US and the UK have (some) democracy. But neither government is structured as a democracy.
[quote][b][i]de·moc·ra·cy[/i][/b] 1) a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives. 2) control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.[/quote]
In the UK there exists two distinctly un-democratic institutions: The House of Lords and the Monarchy. And yet, they are considered among the great democracies of the world. In the US, we have the US Senate and the Electoral College, both decidedly un-democratic institutions and yet we are also considered among the great democracies of the world.
So, when you ask me if I am pro-democracy, I respectfully need to ask you to be more specific. In the grand scheme of democracy versus autocracy, I am 110% on the side of democracy and wear a uniform in its defense. But if you are asking me if I would prefer the US to be restructured into one person, one vote at the federal level, then no I have concerns there.
@sarabee1995 Yes, we all know that no country has a perfect democracy. Democracy is generally a spectrum when talking about politics. Let's try to not get bogged down with semantics here.
But ok, if you want democracy over autocracy, then you're not far-right on that issue. So which issues are you far-right on?
@BohemianBoo Lol, not so fast. Are you denying that autocratic regimes exist and have existed both on the far left and the far right of the political spectrum?? The right does not hold any kind of monopoly on autocracy. Not by a long shot.
@sarabee1995 The spectrum of Left vs Right is about where power is located. The further Left, the more power the people have. The further Right, the more power a tiny minority of the population has.
The most democratic country on Earth, and thus the most left-wing, would probably be Switzerland. And the most right-wing would be North Korea, which isn't just autocratic, it's also totalitarian.
You can see this on every single issue. The Left vs Right stance is always about who gets the power.
@BohemianBoo That's an interesting definition of the political spectrum. Certainly it is skewed to look favorably on the left.
If Switzerland is so far left leaning, then why are its gun laws even more open then ours? Why is it governed so conservatively from a business and taxation perspective?? Switzerland is very right wing by European standards. The Swiss openly support and defend capitalism in the extreme. And yes, they, as good conservatives, embrace direct democracy at their national level.
As for North Korea, are you kidding?? Communism, and the autocracy that it requires in order to exist, are the extreme left of the political spectrum. Private gun ownership: illegal. Private private land or business ownership: severely restricted. Hardly a shred of conservatism in the country.
@sarabee1995 Switzerland actually has much stricter gun control than America. They have a lot of guns, but that has to do with military service. Yes, Switzerland is (sadly) still capitalist. There is no actual leftist country yet. But that's why I said Switzerland is the most left-wing country, relatively speaking. The Nordic countries and the German Sprachraum are the closest countries to Socialism, but they're still capitalist.
Communism is a stateless and classless society. Countries like China, North Korea, the Soviet Union, East Germany, they never had Communism. They had Authoritarianism with leftist imagery.
I am trying to find the "filled in" version of this Venn diagram which far more accurately describes the political "spectrum" ... a linear left right line does not.
@sarabee1995 Oh yeah, the "political compass" is bullshit. Authoritarianism is right-wing, true Libertarianism is left-wing. The stance on an issue is either authoritarian-leaning or libertarian-leaning.
@BohemianBoo I know wiki is not a great source, but I was just looking for a quick quote: "The laws pertaining to the acquisition of firearms in Switzerland are amongst the most liberal in the world." (Not liberal in political ideology, but liberal as in nearly open access.) Semi-automatic rifles (like the AR-15) do not require any reason to be stated for an acquisition permit or ownership license in Switzerland (unless the use is other than collecting, sport, or hunting). That is the NRA's dream here. And no, although I do support the right to self defense, I would NOT support that level of openness here.
@BohemianBoo Okay, let's test your theory that right/conservative = authoritarianism and that left/liberal = libertarianism.
Where do you stand on gun ownership rights? The libertarian position, even as you define it (more power to the people), would lean toward opening up gun ownership. Is this your position?
@sarabee1995 Sure, but I think moderate gun control also increases freedom, which gives more power to the people. Freedom doesn't just mean the government can't take away your guns. It also means that you can be in public without being shot by a mentally ill person. My family owns guns, I'm not against the second amendment. But if someone has a criminal history, I don't think they should be allowed to own a gun.
@BohemianBoo So no criminal history and no mental illness history and I should then be free to buy, own, and carry side arms and long arms without further government intrusion? I live in Massachusetts and that is very far from the current state of the law there.
@sarabee1995 Yes. And even then, it depends on the mental illness. Like, autism doesn't make people violent, so I'm fine with autistic people owning guns. It should probably be on a case-by-case basis. I also think we should close the gun show loophole, and we should register guns the same way we register cars.
But generally speaking, yeah, we probably agree with gun control policy.
@BohemianBoo Hmmm ... registration?? If I have no criminal history at all and no mental illness (some people claim I have autistic tendencies, but never been tested or diagnosed) ... why does anyone need to know what I have tucked away in my gun safe (if I had one)?
I don't actually own any firearms, but I am issued a sidearm (Sig 9mm) for work and I've had tons of range time with the M-16 (an actual assault rifle, unlike the AR-15 which is not an assault rifle by any measure).
