The EU flag consists of twelve golden stars arranged in a circle on a blue backdrop.
There never has been a satisfactory explanation for this flag design. When it was designed in 1955 by the council of Europe, this council consisted of fifteen members, and so the number of stars could not correspond to the number of council members. The number of stars could not represent the number of member states of the EU as this would mean the flag would constantly change as members leave and new members join.
The explanation given is that the number twelve is a number that represents perfection and unity, citing also that there are twelve signs of the zodiac and twelve apostles of Jesus. I do not think that this is a satisfactory explanation, as you could google "the meaning of" any number and you'll have sources telling you about how perfect every other number is. A search of "seven", for example, will tell you this is a number that represents perfection as there are seven days in the week, and seven days of biblical creation.
Therefore, I think there needs to be a much more tangible explanation. And I will provide a lot more information in regards to this explanation than any sort of mystical number claims.
In the pentateuch, Jacob's twelve sons Reuben, Simeon, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Ephraim and Manasseh, unite to form "Israel" and each adopt the symbol of the star.
These twelve tribes allegedly rebel against Jehovah, constructing a tower to reach to the heavens called the Tower of Babel. God becomes irate at this, and scatters the Israelites and mixes up their language. The scriptures use the word "tongue" for languages, a word we do not use in that context in the modern day. (Genesis 11:1-9)
There seems to be some sort of modern day attempt to re construct this scenario from the pentateuch. Pictured below is the parliamentary building of the EU, in Straussbourg, and next to it is the most famous painting of the fabled Tower of Babel.
Note the modern architects mimic the incomplete look of the original? The brochure for the EU also then copies the biblical language of "tongues" and alludes to the idea of the people's of earth coming together in similar manner to the way they did in Genesis.
To me, there seems to be a much, much more direct link to the symbology of the EU and its aesthetics, than any sort of vague numerical mysticism. However, the eyebrow raising coincidences do not stop there, if we go down this line of thinking.
The Tanakh contains what is known as the book of Esther, which is written on a scroll referred to as the 'Megillah'. This is the same book of Esther found in the Christian bible. In this book king Haman conspires to kill the Israelites, but his plan is foiled. As revenge, Queen Esther of the Israelites has Haman's ten sons hung. HIs daughter manages to escape. The passage suggests that there will be another hanging in the future. In the original Megillah, there is a footnote by this event, and the footnote reads '1946' (Tuff, Shin, Zain), in Aramaic (ancient Hebrew). Talmudic Jews celebrate this day as "Purim Festival"
1946 happens to be the date of the Nuremberg trials. The Nuremberg trial concluded with the hanging of ten high ranking officials of the NSDAP party. Just before execution, one of the NSDAP officials shouted "Purim Festival 1946!". An eleventh NDSAP party member, Goering, who family enjoyed cross dressing as a lady, escaped hanging by committing suicide the previous day.
The "holocaust" takes its name not from any German word, but from two Greek words "holo" whole and "khaustos" burnt. In the context of the Israelites, a holocaust is seen as a burnt offering to Jehovah.
Noah offering a holocaust offering to Jehovah. It is a form of repentance. Interestingly, a burnt sacrifice as an atonement for sin is called "tshuva" and a hover beteshuva translates as "returning in repentance" Before the tribes of Israel are to be permitted by Jehovah to return to Israel, tshuva "two thirds of the people in the land will be cut off and die, says the Lord. But one-third will be left in the land.” (Zacharia 13:8) The Jewish population in 1939 was seventeen-and-a-half million and a reported six million perished in the holocaust. This is very close to a 1/3 survival rate. In the 23rd Zionist Congress, Weismann stated "we dreaded the impending holocaust" and "Six millions have been consumed in a great process of annihilation" so again this "consuming" by a fire. (https://www.jta.org/archive/full-text-of-dr-weizmanns-keynote-address-at-22nd-world-zionist-congress). "The fire will consume our bodies will be the fire by which the people of Israel will arise to a new life". (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol 16, Ketet, Jerusalem, (1972), pg 362). This lines up with the very next verse of Zacharia 13:9: '“And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined". The Jewish Yearbook of 1912 states "Russia has since 1890 adopted a deliberate plan to exterminate or expel six-million of its people". https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36832139-the-american-jewish-year-book-5672 Six millon seems a sacred number. I may make another thread for it.
I could write a lot more around this topic as I love learning about the Abrahamic religions and the history of the 20th century. But I'd like to see what people make of this post, first. Does this seem a more accurate background as to the origin of the EU flag?
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
Oh, the European Economic Union, later re-naming itself as the European Union, is run by bureaucrats and politicians, is all politics and economics, does little or nothing cultural, and is hardly noted for being the least bit romantic, individualist or imaginative!
I think the flag is much more prosaic.
Why 12 we might or might not discover. Though, was Western Europe of 12 nations before the fall of the USSR and its Eastern European empire? I don't know - it's just a thought.
Most likely it wanted a flag that did not resemble any existing national banner or symbols.
The idea of it being influenced by anything in the Bible or Torah is rather appealing but hardly likely for a purely-secular, supra-national administration that has to cater for a mix of very different nations with many religions and none.
The Tower of Babel painting is quite typical of Mediaeval to Renaissance, European artists whose knowledge of the Middle East was scanty to say the least. One that exists from the Tudor period depicting the Tower being built, shows a fair representation of European 15-16C building methods and tools by masons and labourers all in the artists' own country's contemporary dress, working in sunshine below a sky that somehow manages to be both day and night simultaneously!
I really can't imagine the largely-unknown committees of largely unknowns who run the thing really ploughing through acres of sacred texts and traipsing round the art-galleries of Italy, France and Germany, for inspiration.
After all, they could not even be bothered to commission, perhaps by competition, a modern orchestral and choral composer for the EU anthem. It simply lifted Ode To Joy from Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.
No, I think your suggestion very poetical and mystical, but the EEC / EU has always been anything but poetical and mystical!
@ArishMell Thanks for not being another on here to make a brain dead, couple word dismissive response.
There were ten member states when it was created. There were fifteen european states after the fall of the soviet union. And the European Union was created before the fall of the soviet union.
"The idea of it being influenced by anything in the Bible or Torah is rather appealing but hardly likely for a purely-secular, supra-national administration that has to cater for a mix of very different nations with many religions and none." The Council of Europe did actually say that the twelve number was considered perfection based partly on the idea of the twelve apostles. And as we know, the twelve apostles were based upon the twelve tribes of Egypt.
I can agree that the painting probably does not depict the literal appearance of the tower of Babel, however the creator of the EU building was certainly trying to copy it. Not only do you have the unfinished right side, but upon close inspection, the central road (presumably leading to an underground carpark) on the modern one, is in the same location as the bridge that bring people to the building in the left one. (not sure of better words, I've been to Italian towns with that design where it's high up and it's connected by this little entrance bridge). You've got an elevated area to the left on both, and then on both there's a little section on the right that gets higher as you go back.
"I really can't imagine the largely-unknown committees of largely unknowns who run the thing really ploughing through acres of sacred texts and traipsing round the art-galleries of Italy, France and Germany, for inspiration." Then you must not be aware that on the grounds to this EU building, is a statue named "The Rape of Europa", which is based upon the myth of Zeus transforming into a bull to abduct Europa?
Lots more on stuff like that that I didn't yet get into.
"After all, they could not even be bothered to commission, perhaps by competition, a modern orchestral and choral composer for the EU anthem. It simply lifted Ode To Joy from Beethoven's Ninth Symphony." Well, it's not really about Europe, more to do with the context I provided :)
Why would they use the term "tongues" rather than "languages"? I've only seen languages referred to in that way in more ancient texts. There is a lot more to this when you look at the intents of the bolshevik state who were right next to Germany
I wonder if there's anyone on here who actually works for the thing, or is far more an expert in its history than I am. I have had brushes with it and its effects, but not actually worked for it... despite once applying for a post as driver for it!
Yes, I think I see what you mean about the context of the USSR next door.
That Zeus and Europa seems all the more curious because it is bringing in pagan beliefs too. Still, although the Christian churches had such a powerful hold on European cultures for so long, many Europeans of all countries did love Classical Greek and Roman references. As mainly devout Christians they did not believe the pantheons theologically, but they enjoyed the stories and art, and more, knowing them was an outwards sign of having been educated.
I was being careful there to show that although the "Europe" of the EU is a single political and economic entity and some of its leaders have always been federalists; "Europe" outside of that is of many countries with their own languages and cultures. It is clear from many other threads that a lot SW users think us all one, homogenous country called "Europe"; but even the European Commission would disagree with them!
@ArishMell Obviously the catholic church was the result of Roman Emperor Constantine making christianity the state religion. It borrowed from previous religious thought of the polytheists of the older Roman religions. (I cringe nowadays when I hear the term "pagan" with these larpagans calling themselves "pagan", it explains your beliefs 0 amount. A pagan is a semitic term for any of the 10,000 religions that are not based on Judaism, christianity or Islam, so you got to be more specific haha) but I digress, as a result of this, all catholic churches face the direction of the sun rise. Sunday became the holy day. Lots of sun stuff as in many cultures of the time, the sun god was generally seen as the main god, so it was easier to transition into monotheism from there. A little off the topic here.
As for my comment on the bolsheviks next door. There is a bit more to that. The Bolsheviks did indeed plan to take over Germany, after having taken Russia. And then the world from there. So there is a lot of truth when Hitler said that his defeat would result in the Bolshevization of Europe. Of the German people being wiped out (the same fate as the countless million ethnic russians) Of which I will cover more of. Russia had been battered from the previous war with Germany, then a war with Japan and then with a civil war from the Bolsheviks. This meant the bolsheviks lacked the military might to attack Germany militarily. Instead, they implanted a domestic terror group known as "Antifaschistische Aktion". We know them today as "antifa"
Similarly as we know them acting today, they attacked anyone and anyone not them, calling everyone to the right of them fascist, as they believed in the idea of social fascism. The idea that a democracy will lead to fascism as it isn't just communism by default. Yeah I know it sounds ridiculous, like I'm just lampooning the antifa of the Trump era, but here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism The intent was to cause an internal communist revolution in Germany to have the country peacefully join the Soviet Union.
This was done under the leadership of Leon Trotsky, an Israelite. Trotsky's revolution was funded by Jacob Schiff, an Israelite banker, who also created the federal reserve act in the US, turning your currency from a receipt for gold to a note from the federal reserve (and confiscated US gold) This is part of where Hitler got the idea of the Jewish influence behind bolshevism and the manipulation of the US economy.
On top of this, when Hitler spoke of "the great stab in the back" resulting in Germany's loss in 1918 after about winning the war, there seems to be truth here. An internal revolution within Germany led to the creation of the People's State of Bavaria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_State_of_Bavariain 1917, by the Israelite Kurt Eisner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Eisner aswell as on the 8th January 1919 Israelite Rosa Luxemberg pushed for another communist revolution in Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg#German_Revolution_of_1918%E2%80%931919 Before Hitler came to power, Israelite Theodore Kaufman wrote the book "Germany Must Perish!" advocating for the sterilisation of all Germans
There did seem to be some sort of desire to take Germany, and some sort of special reverance around a coming holocaust. And the choice of Germany seemed to have some sort of esoteric significance, too
In light of this, this is why to me it raises eyebrows that we've got a recreation of the Tower of Babel in Germany, whose flag is twelve stars, and Antifa running rampant in the west.
@pianoplayingsteve I wasn't singling out any one faith: the love of Classical references was as much among Protestants as Catholics.
I know the USSR did dream of world domination, and were trying to foment revolution all over the place. In the 1980s, still in the Cold War, Britain suffered an irritating rag-bag or hard-Right, mainly racist groups like the National Front; but a police officer told me they worry far more about the far-Left than Right.
The reason was the secretly Soviet-backed Communists were usually much more subtle and organised, even almost civilised, in their methods; whereas the NF and its ilk were mainly just thugs out for a fight.
What's happening now in much of Europe and the USA, is much messier and confusing, in places almost as if there are bands of people who don't really know what they want beyond turning democracy (small 'd', dear Americans!) against itself.
The forerunners to the EU wanted close formal ties between the European nations to end the centuries of on-off wars; although to say as some do that he EU has prevented war is itself xenophobic. That is certainly a worthy aim and I hope it was taken a lot more than a talking-shop in Brussels that has achieved it.
What worries me though is that the EU's "ever-closer Union" theme is unwittingly fuelling the growing nationalism and closing down of freedom in some countries that had finally thrown off brutal rule from first Berlin, then Moscow. It is by no means the only motive, but can't be helping; and is one reason I think the EU a basically good idea long gone wrong, and really does have to change its aims and ways very drastically.
Turkey won't be allowed to join the EU with Erdogan in power unless he changes his tune drastically; and EU-member Hungary has been reprimanded very strongly by the EU for its increasingly hard line on some social matters. Yet the men ruling these states are apparently encouraged by very strong support among their citizens.
It is a mess. Some of the so-called "antifa" types appear no more democratic than the "fascists" by their definition they imagine themselves fighting. At the height of the NF and BNP in Britain, their most vindictive opponents were communist sympathisers; hardly exponents of freedom. The message really was, "WE want it our way and to Hell with anyone else!" irrespective of political theory or dogma.
A mess, and I don't have the answers. Does anyone!
@ArishMell "It is a mess. Some of the so-called "antifa" types appear no more democratic than the "fascists" by their definition they imagine themselves fighting. At the height of the NF and BNP in Britain, their most vindictive opponents were communist sympathisers; hardly exponents of freedom. The message really was, "WE want it our way and to Hell with anyone else!" irrespective of political theory or dogma."
You seem to be falling for the idea pushed by many on the left that the left means good guys and the right means bad guys, as the left still seems to have a control on language and on how we view history. Which makes sense when you consider WW2, the Nazis and the holocaust lay down the foundational myth of the 21rst century west. I took that when you said "appear no more democratic". Antifa are not democratic at all. They are the domestic wing of the Soviets. And the communists are certainly no less further from democracy than the fascists are. I'd argue that the communists despise democracy even more.
@pianoplayingsteve Ummm, you've basically repeated what I said so at least we are broadly agreeing! :-)
Oh, no I am not falling forsuch any ideas pushed by the left, nor the right. Let alone the ups, the downs, the where-the-'eck-are-wes.
I have read and heard too many such over too many years not to spot biases like that.
I realised long ago the trendy-left would rightly condemn Hitler's regime deliberately killing at least 6 million by warped ideology; but were oddly rather quiet about the even bigger death-tolls of Stalin (possibly 20M) or Mao (probably over 30M) by persecution, oppression and sheer negligence.
Do Communists despise democracy more than fascists do? I don't think there is much to choose between them. The former are the easier to define and the more uniform in dogma.
The Communist regimes also seem to plan for a country run by a single system for ever more. The leaders of the day are really caretakers of the system, and they do plan their basic strategy for decades ahead. As we see in China.
"Fascist" is a very loose label. Originally it referred only to Benito Mussolini's system but seems now a catch-all phrase for any dictator not a Communist. I would put them into three camps.
The first generally revolve around one ruler and are less concerned for the future. The second, usually military dictatorships as in Burma, are more long-term minded; and Hitler's "Thousand Year Reich" dream was an extreme form of that. The third and also with longevity ambitions, are the theocracies like Iran and Saudi Arabia.
In the end, whatever their excuse or dogma, it comes down to little more than a label for coteries of very small-minded, ruthless, cruel men with a lust for complete power.
