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Saving American Democracy

With Republicans set to win back both chambers of Congress this fall (I hope I’m wrong but that’s what it looks like), we’re in grave danger of permanent Republican Party rule, similar to what they have in Russia.

Their plan is simple: with majorities in both houses of Congress, they can (and make no mistake, they will, Trump will demand it and they won’t dare defy him) refuse to certify any reasonably close adverse election results because of imaginary “voter fraud”. They’ll install Trump (or maybe DeSantis, it doesn’t really matter) as president, and from there they can pass draconian voter suppression laws and laws that let Republican state legislatures decide election results. Then they’ve got us by the balls, it will be practically impossible for a Democrat to win a significant election ever again.

So how can Democrats prevent this? Well if they can pull a rabbit out of the hat and hold onto the Senate this fall that will at least delay the Republican takeover a bit. Failing that, they have to win the presidency in 2024. But winning like Biden won in 2020 won’t be good enough next time if Republicans have majorities in Congress for the reason I outlined above. If Biden (or whom ever the Democrats nominate, I figure it’ll probably be Biden again even though I think I’d rather it be someone else) ekes out narrow victories in Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, the Republicans in Congress won’t certify the results in those states and it will be enough to give Trump the victory.

So the best bet I can see is for the Democrats to find the next Obama. They need to find a very broadly popular candidate that can win big enough that the outcome is no longer seriously in question when election night comes around. Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin need to be solidly blue, instead the “battleground” states probably need to be Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Iowa, and Texas. That will give him a cushion so if he gets narrow wins in a few of those and they get overturned he’ll still have enough electoral votes to win.

I suppose Congress could still refuse to certify the results, but they’ll be facing a lot more pressure if they can’t even fool the swing voters into thinking maybe there was enough fraud to affect the outcome. Anyway, I figure that’s probably the best we can hope for.

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SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

[quote]we’re in grave danger of permanent Republican Party rule, similar to what they have in Russia.

Their plan is simple: with majorities in both houses of Congress, they can (and make no mistake, they will, Trump will demand it and they won’t dare defy him) refuse to certify any reasonably close adverse election results because of imaginary “voter fraud”. They’ll install Trump (or maybe DeSantis, it doesn’t really matter) as president, and from there they can pass draconian voter suppression laws and laws that let Republican state legislatures decide election results. Then they’ve got us by the balls, it will be practically impossible for a Democrat to win a significant election ever again.[/quote]

What a ridiculous, paranoid and completely impossible situation to fear. Where do you get stuff like this?

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster That would probably be from Republicans like Desantis announcing they were making sure only the right people get to vote and Supreme Court Justices like Clarence Thomas violating their own laws to protect serving politicians from testifying against their own spouses for illegal attempts to overturn elections..😷

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@whowasthatmaskedman Hm, so this is distortion/delusion on the part of the original poster, then?

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster Not at all... You either have Democracy and the Rule of Law. or you dont.. And America doesnt. There is no such thing as "just a little bit pregnant" or "almost a virgin."😷

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@whowasthatmaskedman No offense, but you have promoted the decline of America over and over and over again, it's really your one note that you keep banging away on. I mean, do we have problems? Sure, what country doesn't. But this whole America is doomed and everything happening there is a demonstration of that is entirely biased and a distortion.

If we can't agree on the nature of reality, how are we supposed to reach consensus and compromise?

Vin53 · M

I have to say that's a pretty creepy analogy.

@whowasthatmaskedman

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster I agree that I have picked at the sores on the American system.. The problem being that I love the idea of America. The constitution and the plaque at the foot of the Statue of Liberty. And I agree that no nation is perfect. Least of all my own. But what is a nation really but its people? The the government of America has turn on many of its own, both in law, but more in the failure to uphold the existing laws. And its reached the point usually seen in Oligarchies and Totalitarian regimes..Whatever you want to call it, Jan 6 didnt just happen overnight. It was the result of decades of chipping away at the edges of Democracy that built a frustration in some that they were not being represented. While it empowered others that the nation was theirs if they seized the moment. I would be more encouraged if this event had made the nation stop and think and swear off the bottle so to speak.. But I dont see any sign of that.. Do you?😷

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@Vin53 Yes, it is.. But Democracy is a finely balanced scale.. It either is, or it isnt.. 😷

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@whowasthatmaskedman [quote]Whatever you want to call it, Jan 6 didnt just happen overnight. It was the result of decades of chipping away at the edges of Democracy that built a frustration in some that they were not being represented. While it empowered others that the nation was theirs if they seized the moment. I would be more encouraged if this event had made the nation stop and think and swear off the bottle so to speak[/quote]

This goes to my previous point about agreeing on the nature of reality. This is not how I have chosen to frame the January 6 riots in my mind. I reject the notion that this was some sort of attempt to overthrow the government, it was a riot pure and simple. I am not excusing the individual actions of people involved, rather I reject the propaganda around it, and can see that the whole thing is a partisan farce, designed to disparage the Republicans and paint them as "dangerous" to democracy.

It's a shame we can't look at that riot as well as others in this country as a sign that something is wrong, and be able to look at the underlying reasons for its cause and address that, but we don't seem to do that, and instead file it under our already existing political biases.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster And I reject your rejection. I grant that most of the numbers were their to riot. Although there was definitely a group (and a lot of organisation behind the scenes) that wanted to overturn the election. But no riot of that size happens without a lot of very frustrated angry people having a lot to get worked up about over time and feeling their Democracy has been taken from them by stages. This was simply the final straw to them😷

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@whowasthatmaskedman I'm sorry you've chosen to believe the partisan rhetoric around that event. I've moved on from that, and am looking to whom can view contentious issues with pragmatism and compassion and find a way forward together.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster Thats the first time I have heard live news coverage refered to as partisan rhetoric.. Dont get me wrong here.. I am not say Democracy is the ideal form of Government. I am an economist, not a politician.. As long as the money is used in the best possible way I have no argument with the Divine Right of Kings.. And its a time honored tradition in America for the rich to buy influence to win big.. But since the post Kennedy era it really has become a national sport, barely concealed, and much worse, used in a way that blunted then destroyed the ability of American business to compete openly on the world stage.😷

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@whowasthatmaskedman [quote]Thats the first time I have heard live news coverage refered to as partisan rhetori[/quote]

Strawman response I never said "news coverage" was partisan rhetoric, it should have been obvious I was referring to the January 6 panel in Congress, currently investigating this. If you are watching news coverage of the event, you are allowing yourself to be influenced by the MSM's campaign to promote this event in the way they are promoting.

[quote] But since the post Kennedy era it really has become a national sport, barely concealed, and much worse, used in a way that blunted then destroyed the ability of American business to compete openly on the world stage.[/quote]

What are you talking about? We still are the biggest economy in the world by far, we compete just fine on the world stage.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster Sorry. You just made a hard right into the surreal. If you refer to the actual committee testimony tapes as partisan, thats barely plausible. But saying the US economy competes just fine on the world state is pure BS. I think we are done..😷

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@whowasthatmaskedman I'm sorry you are incapable of accurately interpreting my comments, I think they are pretty clear.

No I did not refer to testimony tapes as partisan, I challenge you to show me where I said that.

[quote]But saying the US economy competes just fine on the world state is pure BS. [/quote]

Uh, you framed this as an economist and made the statement that American business can no longer compete on the world stage. I challenged that, and asked how you square that with the fact that we are the largest economy in the world by far. If you are stuck and don't want to answer, or more charitably, tired of this conversation, so be it.

But don't be a phony and fraud and pretend I am saying things I am not. It's pathetic and I thought you were better than that.

Theyitis · 36-40, M

@SumKindaMunster [quote]What a ridiculous, paranoid and completely impossible situation to fear. Where do you get stuff like this?[/quote] I can understand how it might sound paranoid to someone who’s been sleepwalking through life the past six years, not really paying any attention to politics. But which part of this scenario do you think is unlikely? You think Trump’s not going to run for president again? You think he won’t cry voter fraud this time? You think he won’t call for Congress to not certify a Democratic victory? You think Republicans in Congress will suddenly grow backbones and defy him for the first time? You assume states will ultimately reject proposals to give Republican state legislatures the power to overturn the will of the people? I’m having trouble finding the weak link in this likely chain of events.

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@Theyitis [quote] You think Trump’s not going to run for president again?[/quote]

Yes, likely.

[quote]You think he won’t cry voter fraud this time? You think he won’t call for Congress to not certify a Democratic victory?[/quote]

Perhaps.

This is the "weak link".

[quote] They’ll install Trump (or maybe DeSantis, it doesn’t really matter) as president, and from there they can pass draconian voter suppression laws and laws that let Republican state legislatures decide election results[/quote]

This is absurd, and wouldn't happen and couldn't happen. Also, I noted you dropped this from your response, nice goal post moving.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster No one cant stop you saying what you say, or believing what you believe... However, the thing your opinions and comments do is call into question the kind of person you are. I leave it to others to judge for themselves..After dealing with you I feel the need for a shower.😷

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@whowasthatmaskedman Well no one is forcing you to respond to me, nor read what I have to say.

But since we both know you wont' do that, allow me to judge you in return.

You're a tedious bore. Your entire political comment history is a variation of US is in decline, China is ascending and fake pity about how the US has fallen from its once lofty perch.

In actuality, people just like you have been predicting the decline of the US for decades and yet history and reality show something else.

You've confused wish fulfillment with sage political pronouncements.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster You are half right.. It must be boring to hear the sky is falling over and over.. Just because it is.. But it has nothing to do with the politics.. Its always about the money with me. And as long as the US keeps stealing it from everyone and giving it to the privileged few I will keep saying it. The reality you see is the Punch & Judy show they put up for the peasants about flag, Freedom and a gun in every holster. You keep buying it and have a nice day.. If you dont like my comments, block me, or better yet, stop saying stupid things. Because I will call you on them..😷

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@whowasthatmaskedman [quote]It must be boring to hear the sky is falling over and over.[/quote]

No, YOU are boring. Politics and America's place in it is quite interesting, talking to you is like watching paint dry.

[quote] If you dont like my comments, block me, or better yet, stop saying stupid things. Because I will call you on them[/quote]

I'd like to remind you, you pompous windbag, that [i]you[/i] were the one who took offense to my comments. That's your problem, and since it is your problem, perhaps you should block me.

If not, feel free to "call me out" all you want, it will be just more of your tedious blather, same as today, same as the last 5 years or so I've had to suffer your foolishness.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SumKindaMunster I dont take offence to you. You arent that important to me. I base my statements on science, facts and logic. You base yours of feelings and what someone else told you who read it somewhere. Game over right there. Talk to the hand🤚.😷

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