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TurtleEclipseOfTheHeart · 22-25, F
With conservatives, I draw the line with them not understanding how people are still oppressed today in this country. With liberals, I draw the line with how everything has to be taken the wrong way and offensive. It’s like we have to walk around on eggshells just to speak to somebody.
@TurtleEclipseOfTheHeart Not to mention "conservatives" being oppressed by liberals "taking things the wrong way" and oppressing them for oppressing.
It feels like we're stuck in loops with the conservative/liberal distinction as an us vs them thing as opposed to just attempts to label attitudes an views.
It feels like we're stuck in loops with the conservative/liberal distinction as an us vs them thing as opposed to just attempts to label attitudes an views.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@TurtleEclipseOfTheHeart Fair assessment.
TurtleEclipseOfTheHeart · 22-25, F
@Graylight thank you my love
Graylight · 51-55, F
Make no mistake. It's currently gay marriage, too.
And this is the problem. There is no line. It's like asking for the line drawn at the bottom of a tidal ocean. This is a gray area, values change and evolve with the times. And not in a bad, circling-the-drain kind of way. Women can wear pants now. We don't consider black people partly human. We don't segregate boys and girls at school.
Where's the line? If it's about preserving, maintaining, stasis and inertia, then it's conservatism. If it seeks to reach beyond the next hill or improve upon or usher in, then it's progressive. There's no moral judgment to either word; both are necessary under certain circumstances.
The U.S. Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in 2015, but in most states, laws or constitutional amendments would revive the prohibition if the high court decides, as it did with abortion, that such unions are not a constitutionally protected right.
Thirty-five states ban same-sex marriage in their constitutions, state law, or both, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures and Stateline research. All were invalidated in 2015 by the Obergefell v. Hodges ruling. But should the now-more-conservative U.S. Supreme Court overturn the right to same-sex marriages, those state laws and constitutional amendments would kick in.
“These constitutional amendments are still on the books and would likely be put in place,” said Jason Pierceson, a political science professor at the University of Illinois, Springfield and author of “Same-Sex Marriage in the United States: The Road to the Supreme Court and Beyond. Most of them would arguably be in effect if the court overturns Obergefell.”
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/07/07/without-obergefell-most-states-would-have-same-sex-marriage-bans
Thirty-five states ban same-sex marriage in their constitutions, state law, or both, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures and Stateline research. All were invalidated in 2015 by the Obergefell v. Hodges ruling. But should the now-more-conservative U.S. Supreme Court overturn the right to same-sex marriages, those state laws and constitutional amendments would kick in.
“These constitutional amendments are still on the books and would likely be put in place,” said Jason Pierceson, a political science professor at the University of Illinois, Springfield and author of “Same-Sex Marriage in the United States: The Road to the Supreme Court and Beyond. Most of them would arguably be in effect if the court overturns Obergefell.”
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/07/07/without-obergefell-most-states-would-have-same-sex-marriage-bans
And this is the problem. There is no line. It's like asking for the line drawn at the bottom of a tidal ocean. This is a gray area, values change and evolve with the times. And not in a bad, circling-the-drain kind of way. Women can wear pants now. We don't consider black people partly human. We don't segregate boys and girls at school.
Where's the line? If it's about preserving, maintaining, stasis and inertia, then it's conservatism. If it seeks to reach beyond the next hill or improve upon or usher in, then it's progressive. There's no moral judgment to either word; both are necessary under certain circumstances.
Even some "Conservatives" are finally recognizing that there's not much conservative about their views and goals these days.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/20/we-need-to-stop-calling-ourselves-conservatives/
https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/20/we-need-to-stop-calling-ourselves-conservatives/
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
I go by the definition of "to conserve" in just about anything. You see to conserve is to not waste resources.
BlueVeins · 22-25
@DeWayfarer You're thinking of conservationism. The 'conserve' in Conservatism refers to conserving existing power structures, hierarchies, & traditional values. The movement originated during the French Revolution, in opposition to revolutionaries who were trying to overthrow the monarchy.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@BlueVeins NO! The word conservativism came from the ACT of conserving not the other way around.
Conserving is as old as time itself.
See puritans which were long before the French revolution.
Conserving is as old as time itself.
See puritans which were long before the French revolution.
BohemianBabe · M
I think most Conservatives are still pretty homophobic, which is why they're so quick to believe the lies about teachers being groomers. It's just that now most Americans support gay rights, so they have to be more careful. Instead of talking about banning gay marriage, they do things like the Don't Say Gay bill where the homophobia is dog whistled in.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@BohemianBabe Most American believe in a woman's right of autonomy over her own body, but it's not the law of the land anymore. Nothing is safe and too many politicians have already declared open war on LGBTQ issues.
And this is serious. Old white men with no practical experience are deciding when and how a woman must enter into motherhood and how children must be raised. Old white men are opining about which citizens should have to right to express their love through marriage and deciding who you really are inside where only you know your identity in the world.
Old white men have done this in the past. The Inquisition, the witch trials, the Crusades, the claiming of this country. And every single time, it's the same; it will continue until people stand up, educated themselves (thereby arming themselves) and take a stand against tyranny.
And this is serious. Old white men with no practical experience are deciding when and how a woman must enter into motherhood and how children must be raised. Old white men are opining about which citizens should have to right to express their love through marriage and deciding who you really are inside where only you know your identity in the world.
Old white men have done this in the past. The Inquisition, the witch trials, the Crusades, the claiming of this country. And every single time, it's the same; it will continue until people stand up, educated themselves (thereby arming themselves) and take a stand against tyranny.
BohemianBabe · M
Eternity · 26-30, M
I really don't, honestly.
One group is generally more useful to working class individuals than the other but both either can't see the forest for the trees or can't see the trees for the forest.
Im sure a line could be drawn if one was inclined to sit down and think it out but I am not such a person.
One group is generally more useful to working class individuals than the other but both either can't see the forest for the trees or can't see the trees for the forest.
Im sure a line could be drawn if one was inclined to sit down and think it out but I am not such a person.
Eternity · 26-30, M
@BlueVeins
Yes it does seem that way, but that itself is a critical issue.
People get so wrapped up in the distinction (that is less prominent in reality than one might think) that they allow themselves to be simplified into easily manipulated units rather than putting their brains in parallel and becoming an enlightened society of synched individuals that it would be hard for private interest groups to hoodwink.
But I digress...
seems kinda important to draw a distinction.
Yes it does seem that way, but that itself is a critical issue.
People get so wrapped up in the distinction (that is less prominent in reality than one might think) that they allow themselves to be simplified into easily manipulated units rather than putting their brains in parallel and becoming an enlightened society of synched individuals that it would be hard for private interest groups to hoodwink.
But I digress...
BackyardShaman · 61-69, M
The state I live in is full of openly gay males that support Donald Jawn Trump, and farmers that support Donald Jawn Trump, complain about immigrants, etc., but knowingly hire immigrants (knowing some are not here legally), to run farm equipment. So, where do you draw the line??
SomeMichGuy · M
Well, if we had people in a continuum of beliefs, moderate liberals & conservatives would at some point merge and be distinguished only by their choice of label.