Was the war in Afghanistan lost when it turned into a woke crusade?

How could the war in Afganistan have turned out better for America? The Taliban harbored terrorists who bombed a few of our most iconic buildings by exploiting serious security flaws in our airports. In a world of high technology and globalization, such orgaizations will always exist in the shadows somewhere. Did that justify our attempt to impose "Disney" style values on a backwards country trying to find its identity after centuries of opression?

Is it true that if the Afghan people really wanted to convert to western values, they would have? I suppose we wouldn't have had to fight them for 20 years to "save" them. Thoughts?

What should we do in the future in some similar situation? Thank you.

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ElwoodBlues · M

You can trace most of the US failures in Afghanistan to Bush's Sec'y of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and by extension Rumsfeld's White House ally Dick Cheney.

When the US first entered Afghanistan after 9/11, the CIA was on the front line, buying temporary loyalty from tribal leaders with suitcases full of money. They were closing in on Bin Ladin in the difficult Tora Bora area.

But when Bush sent more troops to Afghanistan, Rumsfeld staged a sort of bureaucratic coup, and said he couldn't support troops there unless he, Rumsfeld, was in total charge of all US people in Afghanistan. I'm sure Cheney backed him.

The result was the US didn't try to surround Tora Bora, and Bin Laden walked out over the mountains to the tribal areas of Pakistan. This was a total failure of the US job in Afghanistan. Politically, Bush couldn't admit the failure, so began a period of mission creep, where Bush & Cheney added more and more goals for US troops in Afghanistan.

But what Bush really wanted to do was punish Saddam Hussein for his invasion of Kuwait during the Bush 1 admin. So he had Rumsfeld and Cheney manufacture excuses for an Iraq invasion and made Iraq the centerpiece of his efforts. Troops were withdrawn from Afghanistan and prepared for Iraq.

So Afghanistan was left on the back burner with reduced military resources and minimal attention along with the mission creep. I've never seen a better recipe for failure.

irishmolly72 · 56-60, F

@ElwoodBlues Thanks for that explanation. And Obama/ Hillary continued the blunder. No?

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@ElwoodBlues You can blame Bush for starting it following the FBI under Clinton and Bush failed to prevent 911. The war never was winnable. Afghanis don't want to be a liberal democracy and don't have the moral imperative to be thus. The US had no business going to Afghanistan or Iraq because their deep state failed in their job.

ElwoodBlues · M

@irishmolly72 Just to be clear, I don't think the US was wrong to enter Afghanistan - their refusal to turn over Bin Laden necessitated some kind of forceful response. But yes, the mission creep blunders began once the "get Bin Laden" objective was off the table, continuing thru Obama and Trump. Not until Biden did any president insist on leaving Afghanistan, and of course the departure was badly botched.

On the other hand, Bush's Iraq war was a blunder from beginning to end, with Abu Ghraib standing out as the gold star championship blunder. On that front, Obama played a big part in withdrawing troops and winding down US presence.

Estimates say the total cost of each war was north of $2 trillion, though Afghanistan was spread over about 20 years, while most of the Iraq spending was during an 8 year period.

@hippyjoe1955 Regardless of who bears the blame for 9/11, I can and do blame Bush for making the Afghanistan war the debacle it became, and I fully blame Bush for his Iraq war debacle.

[sep][sep][center]UPDATE[/center][sep][sep]
[quote]So what did bin Laden have to do with going to war in Afghanistan? Serious question.[/quote]
Although I consider myself to be better than average at explaining things to people, I'm not going to waste my time explaining the blindingly obvious to you. Doubtless you have some marvelously absurd conspiracy theory you're dying to share, so don't let me stand in your way. It's all Hillary's fault, right??

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@ElwoodBlues So what did bin Laden have to do with going to war in Afghanistan? Serious question. Did the US go to war over Julian Assange? I believe it was Ecuador that wouldn't hand him over.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@ElwoodBlues If you think that spending billions of dollars and costing countless lives are justified because some neocon/neolib thinks there is a bad guy hiding in the wilds of Afghanistan you truly are delusional. Bush blew it. Clinton before Bush blew it. Obungles continued in the error. Trump laid the ground work to end it and Biden botched that. Doesn't look good for your heroes. The US should never have gone to war following 9/11. Stupid move. Talk about blaming someone else for your screw up. The US was told that there were guys taking flying lessons that shouldn't be taking flying lessons. The US did nothing. The US knew about the plans and still did nothing. And for that incompetence the US was justified in starting two endless wars that are completely unwinnable.

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