Neoliberalism beats Fascism again.

@Elessar Not really, because the French system made sure that Le Pen, or anyone at all like her on left or right, had no chance of winning.

@MartinII There's no such thing as "impossible" when it comes to winning an election.

@Elessar Yeah, Macron won on a slightly lower vote share than last time. A lot of his support is very shallow too. He's been virtually at war with a section of people who voted for him in round 2.

@Elessar There is in the French system, because it makes sure that only an establishment candidate can win. Anyone further to left or right has no chance, and more radical parties cannot even aspire to a share of power. Of course. many people would regard that as a good thing.

@Burnley123 Popularity wise, he's essentially France's Renzi. It's as if we, had we had a similar electoral system (thankfully not?), we were forced to vote between Salvini and Renzi here. I get uncomfortable just thinking about the hypothetical scenario, I can only imagine experiencing it irl

@MartinII "only an establishment candidate can win. Anyone further to left or right has no chance, and more radical parties cannot even aspire to a share of power."

So how did Macron become President five years ago ? And how has Le Pen now contested two run-offs ?

🤔

@RodionRomanovitch I guess the point is that the French system prefers the candidate closer to the political 'centre'.

Le Pen has no chance against Macron because of Melenchon voters. Melenchon would have no choice against Macron because of Le Pen voters.

I don't think its a bad system, tbf but he has a point.

@RodionRomanovitch Macron is an establishment candidate par excellence. The only type of candidate who might have beaten him was another establishment candidate. Le Pen was a no-hoper, as any other anti-establishment candidate would have been. As I said in another comment, many people will regatd this as a good thing.

@Burnley123 Exactly, thank you.

@MartinII I support Melenchon. I don't think the French system is bad or good just comme ci comme ça.

Though that so many of the French public really didn't like Le Pen and that was expressed democratically.

@Burnley123 Yes, I agree. But in some systems people of more radical opinions have some influence. For example, in the UK on the left of the Labour Party or the right of the Tory party. In Germany, sometimes in coalitions. And I think that’s a good thing.

@MartinII I have issues with our electoral system too. I guess if your side is winning, you want decisive change but gridlock and moderation if it's not the case.

I'm agnostic on this, though your points are decent.

@Burnley123 Then again, what if your side is in power but isn’t making good use of it!

@MartinII Then behead the opposition on Guillotine!

@MartinII because the population has always been largely centrist. Because many people see through the lyricism of so-called radicals, they may like to grumble a lot, but many French people know that decisions must be made, and the magic of incantation is not a way to solve issues. Because the populist parties (left and right ) are very hateful and if you like your children you don't support hate.

@MartinII What do you call "establishment"? People are free to elect who they want. They are not sheep.

@EarthlingWise No, the population isn't "largely centrist". Macron was voted because, as said, the alternative was literally a Putin crony that didn't even bother too much to hide it.

Voting for the "less worse" isn't a sign of a healthy political climate, and in such climate it's only a matter of time before someone radical and hateful manages to get elected.

@Burnley123 It's not "the system", Burnley, it's largely the people themselves.

@Elessar This is what some people want to believe, I've been living in France for half a century, I know its culture, I know its people.

@EarthlingWise I agree with your first sentence, but not with your last. To use a historical example, “one nation” or “wet” Tories hated Thatcherism just as much as any radical hates centrists. You may say they were right to do so. But I think it’s quite wrong to suggest that radicals, whether left or right, have a monopoly in hate, or that centrists have a monopoly in kindness.

@MartinII I never said centrists are angels. I'm not even a centrist, I know how the voting dynamics works , it's a chess game, people anticipate what others will do, and yes, so far, and yet again, French people have always liked to make sure there was a political balance in the country.

@EarthlingWise This is what hard numbers say, in particular the abstention rate at 28.0% Which is nearly 1/3 of the eligible population, not crumbles.

@EarthlingWise On the first point, in the current French context, it means uncritical support for the EU. On the second, people in France are not, in the second round of presidential elections, free to elect who they want. They can only elect one of the two candidates on the ballot paper.

@MartinII But there is a first round!
Uncritical? French people? now, you must be joking!

@MartinII Le Pen is a populist, she is a sponger, she steals money from the EU Parliament.