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Tony Blair and George W Bush have a lot to answer for.

From the moment that the invasion happened, there were only two possible outcomes: perpetual military occupation or the Taliban retaking the country. This is because the Afghan people (whatever their views on the Taliban) never ever supported the military invasion by foreign powers. Look at the pitiful resistance given by the heavily funded government army. Also look at how the Taliban managed to survive any military defeats by getting support from the rural Afghan populations. You can win a conflict by conventional means but you can never win consent to rule in this way.

This is not WW2: in which the population of a modern Western country accepted military defeat and preferred subjugation by Western powers to the alternative, which was rule by Stalin's USSR. The process was aided by massive national guilt for the holocaust, a willingness to build a new country and a desire to eventually reunite with East Germany. That situation was exceptional is no analagy for the war against the Taliban.

You can't invade a country, kill lots of people and then expect a domestic populations to support you. Vietnam does work as an analogy, as does Iraq.

The war never had a true humanitarian aim anyway. Nor was it ever really about defeating terrorism. There were and are plenty of other abysmal regimes across the globe and Bin Laden got killed (in Pakistan) years ago. It was a war fought for the same reasons most wars have always been fought: over power and resources. That it failed so abysmally on its own terms does not mean that those terms were ever good.

Biden will get blamed for this but to criticise him here misses the pount: this was always going to happen. It could have been ten years later or ten years earlier but the awful results woukd still have been the same.
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Budwick · 70-79, M
You know, when my dog takes a dump in the back yard, he kicks dirt and grass to bury it.

And democrat instinct leads them to bury their mistakes, like abandoning Afghanistan by blaming everyone but the man and party in charge.

SARCASM
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Budwick Bush started the war and Trump signed the withdrawal agreement because he thought the war was awful and wanted to end it.

They can't both be right.

Which of them do you disagree with and why?
Budwick · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 [quote]Which of them do you disagree with and why?[/quote]

Biden - cuz he is in office.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Budwick... and if Trump had done the same thing (following through his own withdrawal agreement) then you would now be attacking him?

Nobody believes that for a second.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 [quote] if Trump had done the same thing[/quote]

But he didn't.
Biden did, and he is a disgrace.
Much as you are for defending Biden.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Budwick I am as on record saying I don't really have much care for Biden. I would vote for him ahead of Trump if I was American but that is 100% about antipathy towards what Trump represents.

I will criticise my own party, which is the UK Labour Party. You can even see this in the title of this post which blames Tony Blair!

I'm a non interventionist and my position on that has been consistent all my adult life. This war began at the start of my adult life and I went on demonstrations against it.

Your attitude to foreign policy (or any policy) is to defend everything that Trump does and to criticise anything done by any Democrat. You dislike female Democrats slightly more but that is the only deviation.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 [quote]Your attitude to foreign policy (or any policy) is to defend everything that Trump does and to criticise anything done by any Democrat. [/quote]

Trump made few if any errors.

Biden hasn't managed to even stumble onto a correct decision.
Even you don't like him.
Barefooter25 · 46-50, M
@Budwick If Trump was still in office and done the exact same thing that Biden did, Pelosi and Schumer would call Congress into session and call for another set of impeachment articles.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Barefooter25 Oh for sure Trump would be criticised by Domocrats for doing the exact same thing and you and Budhack would be defending him.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 Trump was in office 4 years - did nothing like this.
Biden screwed the pooch bad.
He's been in office less than a year.
Biden sucks so bad - he blows!
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@Budwick Trump brokered a deal with the Taliban and released 5000 Taliban leaders. In other words Trump released 5000 terrorists. Do you support releasing terrorists?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Budwick Trump withdrew troops from Syria, letting Assad win and did the same in Kurdistan, letting in the Turks. So he literally has done the same thing in just about every way possible but you didn't notice because of your hyper-partisan 'news' sources.

He also literally signed the agreement which Biden carried out. There is no consistency in your views other than Orange man = good. Democrats = bad.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 All of that I'm sure will be of great comfort to the people trapped in Afghanistan today. You've been very helpful.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Budwick Do you think nobody got raped in Syria or Kurdistan? Yes/No

Do you think Trump cares if Afghan women get raped? Yes/No
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@Budwick do you even know the history of the Turks? Do you know what they did to Armenians, Assyrians and Yezidis? If you did you wouldn't support Trump's actions.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@basilfawlty89 Trump had nothing to do with the abandonment of US citizens in Afghanistan.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@Budwick yes he had. He made the deal with the Taliban. He released 5000 Taliban warlords.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@basilfawlty89 Trump had nothing to do with the abandonment of US citizens in Afghanistan. All Joe.