Is being an 'honest liar' a big thing in politics.

Opponents of Boris Johnson and Donald Trump seem confused as to why people support politicians who seem like such blatant charlatans.

Perhaps though, this is the wrong way of thinking about it. When trust for politicians is low and people acceot that politics is a cynical game, maybe its an advantage to be seen as more obviously cynical.

Labour's leader Keir Starmer is now tanking in the polls in spite of making 'integrity' a big part of his pitch and people wonder way this isnt working but I think part of the answer lies in thw question. People know they are being sold a brand and find it patronising whereas Johnson is an entertaining blag artist.

People have a strange admiration for people who blag things and get away with it. If all politicians are liars, why not go with the one who tells the best lies? Do you want your bullshit bland and technocratic and sold to you via focus group or do you prefer your bullshit to have a human face?

I am not saying any of this is good but I think the centre left really suffers through following the polls and its focus group orientated politics.

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Frank52 · 70-79, M

The most blatant and unashamed liar (and I am not mistaken in using that word) we have ever had in No 10. Others have been mendacious in selecting which truth to tell, but this one is brazen and positively happy to be seen as a 'good sort' while shafting the country. Cronyism is rife, Northern Ireland going up in flames in places because he did what he said no Conservative Prime Minister could ever do and only COVID is preventing the full negative effects of Brexit being reported on. (I'm happy for someone to give me an actual positive, not a jingoistic 'feeling' or false attribution of a reclaimed power.) I see no Opposition with vision or the ability to appeal to the electorate that fell over themselves falling for his nonsense. And I'm afraid, Corbyn was not that person either.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Frank52 I think Corbyn's flaws are well documented and I'm not gonna lie about them. His project though at least constituted an attempt to move the country in a more progressive direction. Starmer is making no attempt to do that and he has no chance of winning power either. I doubt you would disagree when I say he's practising Tony Blair's electoral strategy but executing it badly and with zero charisma.

We live in a very Conservative country: from the institutions, the press, and the people. The Tories can do so much wrong and still have a commanding poll lead because different standards apply. For Labour to win, it would need a united party, the 2017 manifesto (radical but credible) and a leader with Nicola Sturgeon's gravitas. I can't see [b]any [/b]of these three things happening anytime soon, sadly.

Frank52 · 70-79, M

@Burnley123 I share your despondency at a lack of a credible progressive alternative. I felt a bit like this in Thatcher's day, but you couldn't accuse her of mendacity: she did what she said she'd do which I thought was pretty brutal. Despite the newspapers opposition, I thought that Neil Kinnock could have been a good alternative, but time and again, the voting system returned a government that worked against the interests of the majority.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Frank52 I'm still a member of the party but I have become a lot less active since the election. I don't know how I could even canvass for Starmer. What are his good points and what is he going to do differently to the Tories? How could I tell someone he is going to make their life better without lying? These a rhetorical questions. I never expected him to be radical but I expected [i]something[/i]. He has disappointed on every level, moral and strategic.

A lot of people didn't like Corbyn but you could at least point to the policies and you were fighting for something which you believed in. I am not gonna be arsed knocking on doors for Starmer and a lot of Labour members feel the same.

Sorry for the rant LOL