Trump is going to win this!

@splishsplash That means absolutely nothing when you can't even trust the department of Justice or the FBI. The left can no longer even differentiate between truth and falsehood, but their lies will catch up to them soon enough.

@puck61 [quote]you can't even trust the department of Justice or the FBI. [/quote]

Does this mean that unless the institutions of the State agree with your take on things, they must be wrong and you right? Where now is the objective voice to which the country can turn if this is the case? If I go to court knowing that the jury has made up its mind against me despite the evidence, then the entire legal system might as well be abandoned and we'll go with what the mob 'knows' simply because they all agree.

@Frank52 They were both complicit in fraudulent activity before and during the Trump administration.
Fraudulent activity is bad because it is fraudulent.

@Frank52 The judge always goes easy on his favorite whore.

@puck61 Has that allegation been in any way legally proven? If not, it's just an unsubstantiated statement, like those that fell from Trump's mouth after he lost the election.

@Frank52 Everyone watched it happen. The left didn't care because, in their book, the end justifies the means, regardless of the malfeasance involved. The right just seethes in their anger wondering what it's going to take to save this country. We pray. We resist. We hope. We wait. Many of us wait for a clarion call. We know that if they kill the 1st amendment, the 2nd is next.
First they silence your speech.
Then they come for your guns.
Then they come for your bibles.
This might sound melodramatic or hyperbolic to you but slowly and surely that is the direction these particular leftists are headed.

@puck61 You're right, I do see it as hyperbolic. However, fear is a real thing and I pray you'll be freed from it soon. Truth is the perfect cleanser: it is recognising it that is confusing so many at present.

@Frank52 I don't see truth on the left. I see sickness, suffering, and filth. You see it too, but you like it.

@puck61 I think not. I see anger and malevolence wrenching people apart. I see no 'left' and 'right'. What I do see is a lack of understanding that to have another opinion is not a sign of The Apocolypse. Political positions are not sanctioned or disapproved of by God. Each person needs to find the humanity in another and express the love of God to them as best they can. Then we stop panicking that if someone else sees things differently they are going to destroy everything we hold dear. It will never be all 'sweetness and light' in this world, but it doesn't have to be viscerally antagonistic.

@Frank52 It is lawlessness and immorality vs lawfulness and morality. Of course it is going to be antagonistic. We are experiencing the labor pains before the birth of war.

@puck61 Who are the appointed judges of the law?

@Frank52 Jesus Christ and G0d, and various divine Patriarchs and Matriarchs, a certain Queen of Ethiopia from ancient times is among the judges according to scripture. (for example)

@puck61 In the US (and other countries), for the purposes of good governance, how does that manifest itself?

@Frank52 Our country was founded on Christian and Judaic principles .

@puck61 I understand that. Mine is nominally the same. I think one thing we might agree on is that all human government is flawed - it was in Biblical times. When asked about the most important Law, Jesus said nothing about 'left' or 'right', dictatorship or democracy, capitalism or socialism. I am seeking to understand (and thanks for sticking with it) how the USA or my own 'liberal democracy' handles the practicalities of flawed human government. I believe in a 'prophetic voice' from the Church but if we undermine the institutions that keep order without having a viable alternative, we open the door to anarchy. And we know who would like that.

(I didn't expect this conversation to take this turn, but am happy to continue on this thread, start a new one, or message privately.)

@Frank52 We can continue so Oster can get the points. I am just disgusted with the attacks on conservatives and the first amendment by the left. I am also disgusted by abortion, identity politics, and ridiculously far left legislation, like school children of all ages being able to identify as the opposite gender and take showers with each other. It's absolutely wrong. There are two genders, and until they are eighteen they should be kept separate in the shower room and in some sports. I am disgusted by loose immigration laws. I am disgusted by the political sex this administration is having with China. I am disgusted by the overwhelming double standard and hypocrisy of the left. I am disgusted by the way, domestic terrorism has absolutely no legal consequences for leftists. In general I am disgusted by this new mutated version of progressivism and liberalism. It is nightmarish from my perspective and it's destroying this country. Look at the unbelievable increase of homelessness in blue cities. Look at the horrible jump in the crime rate, and the epidemic of drug abuse. This is the result of leftists and their sick and disgusting agenda. They even want to normalize pedophilia. Under this administration, it won't be long before kiddyfiddlers can go out and buy a kid like an addict would buy a dime bag, My complaint could go on another 5 thousand words but I will stop here. Suffice to say , I am angry and disgusted with these new leftists.