How does Trump win the election?

@Nudistsue26 I'd say that the odds of Trump overturning the election are less than 50%. It could happen but it will be difficult.

There are constitutional issues to be addressed but I don't know how they can be fixed.

I'm most interested in the remedial action Congress takes to ensure that voters have confidence in the validity of future elections. It seems to me that this is a very complex issue. But it has far reaching and profound implications that are much more important than who the next President is.

This is what concerns me the most.

@HoraceGreenley The problem is not the elections, but in the voters who are stuck in the OANN/Breitbart/Fox evening media bubble. I think Chris Krebs, Bill Barr and the Georgia Republicans are proof of that.

@luckranger71 If you believe that there was no problem with the election and that the "problem" is with the media, then you have the problem. Please send me a postcard from fairy-land. It sounds like a nice place.

@HoraceGreenley So what evidence have you got that Rudy doesn't?

@OggggO None. Again, the evidence hasn't been presented in court. A judge won't hear evidence if standing is at issue. If the plaintiff can't demonstrate ground for an injury, then there's no point in hearing evidence.

Were you born this thick, or have you been working on it your whole life?

@HoraceGreenley Because it doesn't exist.
THAT'S NOT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED YOU TWIT.
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2020/11/11/voter-fraud-pennsylvania-lawsuits/
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/trumps-election-lawsuits-lose-court-vote-fraud-2020-biden.html
https://time.com/5914377/donald-trump-no-evidence-fraud/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/27/trump-voter-fraud-lawsuit-rejected-pennsylvania-court
https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/judge-rejects-trump-campaign-lawsuit-seeking-to-block-states-presidential-election-results

@OggggO i don't know what this suit is about. The Trump campaign claimed fraud in some cases and constitutional issues in other, eg., violations of Article 2 regarding election procedures.

I don't know from this transcript whether fraud or constitutional issues were being alleged for these mail in ballots.

This is not dispositive of lack of evidence of fraud.

@HoraceGreenley No, they haven't. They've stayed the hell away from fraud claims in court because they know they would get struck for perjury.

@OggggO The details regarding this case demonstrate a lack of evidence: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/trumps-election-lawsuits-lose-court-vote-fraud-2020-biden.html

However, that doesn't mean all the cases lack evidence or constitutional basis.

@HoraceGreenley No, but the refusal to file any, leading to a track record of case after case after case with no evidence casts extreme doubt over any other cases having evidence. Hell, even when he wasn't in court and under oath, the best "evidence" Rudy could come up with was a woman who said all Chinese people look alike and another that whined about black people wearing rhinestones.

@OggggO The Time article demonstrates that some of the lawsuits are based on Constitutional issues, e.g., Article II https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii

Only the state legislatures may determine the how the election shall be conducted.

Obviously, the lawsuits allege that some states violated this Article.

This election is not just about fraud.

@HoraceGreenley And only the state legislatures did.

@OggggO The Guardian article:
The judge denounced as “breathtaking” a Republican request to reverse certification of the vote, adding: “Voters, not lawyers, choose the president. Ballots, not briefs, decide elections. [The] campaign’s claims have no merit.”

The court is claiming a lack of jurisdiction, i.e., the court was not going to take the extraordinary measure of eliminating votes.

@OggggO Nevada:

But nearly all evidence cited by the campaign — save for the initial complaint and a brief data analysis report published after the Thursday hearing — were filed under seal, meaning that records such as depositions or lists of alleged ineligible voters are not publicly available.

So while this particular court may have issues, that does not mean a higher court will.

Since we don't know what all the evidence is, it's difficult to determine if an appeal would be successful or not.

@HoraceGreenley Incorrect.
That's also not what "jurisdiction" means.

@OggggO These articles are dated as well. More evidence has been collected since their publication. That evidence will be used in appeal cases.

@HoraceGreenley Nope, you can't add new evidence to an appeal. The evidentiary record is established in the original case.

@OggggO Generally speaking, that is true. But there are ways to introduce new evidence.

You've heard of people being exonerated from the introduction of DNA evidence, right? Even after long periods of incarceration.

@HoraceGreenley You're right, I should have specified. The plaintiff cannot introduce new evidence upon appeal. Defendants have much more leeway to prove their innocence.

@OggggO Strictly speaking plaintiffs cannot introduce new evidence. But there are procedures to handle this and I don't know the specific mechanics.

@HoraceGreenley Chris Krebs, Brian Kemp, Bill Barr et al., all conservative Republicans, have already weighed in about "fraud". It doesn't exist on a widespread basis. The GOP legislatures in Pa, MI and WI are to blame for alleged "vote dumps" by not allowing early counting. "Evidence" has been presented in affidavits and exhibits in many filings and has been discounted by the courts. Not to mention the evidence adduced at clown shows like the Michigan hearings.

Again, the problem is one of cognitive dissonance. Many conservatives simply cannot comprehend that Biden was elected because their chosen news sources, plus their own social media feeds, creates the illusion that the majority thinks like them. This is an issue across the political spectrum (Bernie Bros are another example), but that bubble appears tighter on the far right.

@HoraceGreenley come on Rudy ...you have to know

@luckranger71 Oy vey

@SW-User O have to know what

@HoraceGreenley Translation: Bill Barr, Chris Krebs and the Georgia GOP are now part of the Deep State. 😂

But please, go on. Your Trump University-level analysis of appellate procedure is entertaining.