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Should the U.S. still be considered a democracy at this point?

It sure doesn't feel like one
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Im not American but I want to address the wider point about the western world. The impact of Trump on this and American distinct things are for others to comment on.

There are degrees of democracy. Some countries have formal democratic structures but no free press or judiciary (Russia, Hungary and lots of African nations). Most of the west has these things but with the scales tilted heavily in the intersts of the rich and powerful.

This type of democracy we have now isnt perfect but its the best we have had. Its important to say that it wasn't founded as a result of liberal philosophy or the French and American revolutions. It came about because of the increased power of labour union movements from the late nineteenth century onwatds. Economic power eventually translated to political power as the ruling class had to compomise in order to prevent socialist revolutions and keep their workers producing for them. Women also had to fight hard to get the vote.

Now unions in many countries are weak, capital has power like never before and nation states have much more surveillance capabilties because of technology. Automation may well further undermine the economic and political power of workers.

So yes, Democracy is slowly being eroded and it has been for years. Its not just about Trump or the nationalist right, though they are a symptom and perhaps an accelerant too.
revenant · F
@Burnley123 unions are not weak here. There are always on strike !
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@revenant Ive heard on good authority (from a Canadian union rep no less) that they are not as strong as they once were even in Canada.

In Britain and America, the union movements were badly crushed by the neo liberal right in the 80s. In the rest of the west (outside of maybe France) unions have declined slowly in terms of power and influence.
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revenant · F
@Burnley123 was not talking about canada but the country of yours truly
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@PainfulTruth What killed the US car industry was moving from protectionist trade to full capitalist globalisation.

I cant speak for how corrupt your union was and maybe you are right about that.

Nonetheless my point stands. Organised labour is one of the few powers that working class people have. Without strong and none corruot unions, we are all pretty screwed.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@revenant Riiiight but I mentioned that too. Unions here were strong in the seventies but got massively weakened in the 80s by Thatcher and have never recovered.
revenant · F
@Burnley123 and I second painfultruth.....they are most likely to bite where their mouth is

The idea is honorable though
revenant · F
@Burnley123 I know I am a bit weird..I can speak for For France and Canada. Here I was talking about france
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@revenant The idea is honourable and necessary.

I dont think you disagree with my main point about democracy declining due to the rise of corporate oligarchy.

If that problem cam ever be solved them organised workers need to be part of the solution.
revenant · F
@Burnley123 on paper lots of ideas sound great.
Put into practice and taking into account that man is infinitely flawed, it does not translate so well.
I would totally agree with you that democracy is declining in respect of globalism yes
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@revenant Well I did mention that too as the one exception lol. I think its good that they, along with the yellow vests, stopped Macron introducing his full agenda. Yeah strikes are inconvenient but having a crap pension is worse. I wish us Brits were better at standing up for themselves.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@revenant Its really fascinating that the radical right now have an analysis of world affairs which is similar to what the socialist left have been saying for years.

Unlike you, I don't see (ethno)nationalist capitalism as a viable or desirable solution though. On that we disagree.
revenant · F
@Burnley123 honestly I think you brits should absolutely stand up ! Macron is trying to piss on you and you cannot accuse me of nationalism here, This whiny war between england and france at the moment is pathetic. I totally despise Macron and I hope you stand up for yourself.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@revenant I think my own government is even worse and make Macron look good, which he doesnt deserve.
revenant · F
@Burnley123 yeah we disagree. And funnily enough those little pissy wars do use nationalism big time. I hope you send back the refugees to France and let them deal with it. Also quarantine oh my god !
revenant · F
@Burnley123 Boris Johnston is weak..well at least we agree on something.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@revenant We can take eight thousand desperate refugees. We should take more. A person is a person and a life is a life.
revenant · F
@Burnley123 no you cannot. It is treason to your own people. These people bring crime big time. Once you allow one boat, 10 more will follow. And you wonder still where those deaths by machete come from ?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@revenant Its actually our obligation under international law.

Immigrants on average make a net contribution. Almost all work and take fewer benefits.

Deaths by machette is not something Ive heard about and i bet you got that from Breitbart or something even worse. I'm not intereted in debating far right scare stories.
revenant · F
@Burnley123 no they do not. They only take

huh..I do not think my local news is called Breitbart. It does not even know English.
It is very real.
luckranger71 · 51-55, M
@PainfulTruth [quote]The UAW killed Detroit and the American auto industry. [/quote]

😂😂😂. This won't make the top 10 odious things you've posted, but it will make another list.