Should the U.S. still be considered a democracy at this point?

@Burnley123 Yeah this whole "we're not a democracy, we're a republic" thing, referred tho the U.S. makes just as much sense as screaming «I eat pork-chop, not pig!»

@Elessar Also, we have kind of missed (blinded by a stupid argument) that these people are arguing against democracy!

Or at least aspects of it they don't like.

@Burnley123 Simply because they take it for granted, they're born with it, never tasted what it feels like living under totalitarianism.

@Elessar

Absolutely.

@Elessar you live under totalitarian government ?🤐

@revenant Not me, thankfully. My grand-parents and grand-grand-parents, however, yes.

@Elessar so what are you talking about ?

@revenant About what I learned directly from them. Unlike many others, I don't need to burn my ass sitting on fire to know that it's hot.

@Elessar ahah stories become more and more legends with time ! not to say there are not real . Basically you have no clue nor do I during Verdun

@revenant Not at all, they're witnesses. And as I said, I have both studied the period and had their personal/local version of the facts - I don't need to burn my ass sitting on fire to know that it's hot. If one needs to, they can try totalitarianism on their own skin by moving to China/HK, Turkey, Belarus, North Korea, Hungary (?) for a while.

People here fought for democracy, those who remember or learned about the sacrifice required won't cede it easily.

@Elessar and I can tell you that whilst I enjoy immensely those kind of narratives, they are still grounded in THEIR reality at the time. It is very different from the present time.

@revenant The transition from democracy to totalitarianism wasn't something that took centuries to happen, and didn't find much opposition at the time until it was too late for the most to resist it. It took roughly 20 years and the intervention of multiple foreign nations, a world war, and a lot of spilled blood, in order to get rid of it.

The fact one is born in democracy doesn't necessarily mean s/he will die in it.

@Elessar that long ? nah a few years can do. A good war and there it is

@Elessar Out of interest, which country are you speaking of?

@revenant Yep, that long. And took only 3 years to go up.

And no, there's no such thing as a "good war".

@Burnley123 Italy, 1922-45

@Elessar Thanks.

@Elessar matter of speech 😚

@Elessar I bet in your country, you are worried about Salvini.

Personally I think your Democrats are pretty bad and Five Star are an absolute joke. Im not sure who Id vote for there but I think Salvini is at best Fascist adjacent.

@Burnley123 Meloni (FDI) at the moment concerns me more than Salvini (Lega/League). Or especially a coalition between the two, that could gain additional support by taking in the remnants of Berlusconi (FI) as well.

Salvini at the moment is *the* absolute joke, consider that he would be in the majority right now hadn't him thrown himself out of it last year by attempting a govt crisis while he was peaking on the polls (August 2019), forgetting that by constitution the political forces can reassess and form a new majority until the next election round.. and which eventually did, leaving him out. I think he lost a lot of popularity now during the pandemic, considering his constant 180° turns on pretty much everything, from complaining the lockdown wasn't tight/quick enough, to wanting to ease during the peak, to now refusing to wear masks and again to close the loop (fresh of this morning, iirc) asserting that the PM should be trialed because the lockdown and containment measures weren't adequate (!).

Which brings us to M5S, the party that was in coalition with Salvini (far-right/right) and is now still in the majority but along with the democratic party (centre-left). Which says a lot. It was born as the original anti-establishment party but now has so many internal currents that I can't see it surviving in the current form for long. A similar process is happening also with the Democratic party, from which two parties already originated (Azione and IV).

The current PM (Conte) gained a lot of support in the earliest phase of the lockdown, and after the successful negotiations for the Recovery funds; I think he went down a bit in May because people expected the easing of the quarantine measures to happen faster (especially businesses owners), but overall, many re-evaluated him positively, especially compared to pre-pandemic.

I've no idea who I'll vote either honestly, but I think that before the next elections there will be several changes (new parties, parties splitting, minor parties merging, people moving to and from the so called "mixed group", public opinion changing, etc.). A coalition led by the current PM could at least at the moment realistically challenge a right-wing one, at least judging by what I hear around.