I'm SURE the similarities are purely coincidental
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DrWatson · 70-79, M
I am no fan of Trump. But to be fair, it would follow from this comparison that the very symbol of the American eagle is somehow connected to the Nazis, and I am sure that is not what you want to imply.
The eagle was the symbol of the Roman empire. The German word "Kaiser" means Caesar. (Probably a nod to the past glory of the Germanic "Holy Roman Empire") Hitler was appealing to a country enduring humiliation after the first world war by promising the glory of a new German empire. And so he chose the symbol of the Roman empire.
In the United States, the eagle was chosen as the national bird because there are eagles here. And that happened long before Hitler.
The image on the Great Seal of the United States also shows an eagle in a similar "pose", and of course that predates the Nazis too.
I share your feelings about the MAGA movement. But I would not read too much into that emblem. Their own actions and words are more than enough to indict them.
The eagle was the symbol of the Roman empire. The German word "Kaiser" means Caesar. (Probably a nod to the past glory of the Germanic "Holy Roman Empire") Hitler was appealing to a country enduring humiliation after the first world war by promising the glory of a new German empire. And so he chose the symbol of the Roman empire.
In the United States, the eagle was chosen as the national bird because there are eagles here. And that happened long before Hitler.
The image on the Great Seal of the United States also shows an eagle in a similar "pose", and of course that predates the Nazis too.
I share your feelings about the MAGA movement. But I would not read too much into that emblem. Their own actions and words are more than enough to indict them.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@DrWatson It's not about the eagle and yes, many designs are similar or share designs. But when you're fashioning a new national campaign and the best you can do is a symbol reminiscent of Nazi Germany, you wither utterly lack a PR group or you have a specific intention.
All this, "1,000 years ago..." nonsense is just that. A swastika is a swastika to us, regardless of what it meant in Sanskrit. A Confederate flag symbolizes pro-slavery attitudes regardless of the tiny little infantry band that used it first. A symbol , in one second, imparts the meaning of an entire agency - it's not a thing theses are routinely written about when discussing meaning.
All this, "1,000 years ago..." nonsense is just that. A swastika is a swastika to us, regardless of what it meant in Sanskrit. A Confederate flag symbolizes pro-slavery attitudes regardless of the tiny little infantry band that used it first. A symbol , in one second, imparts the meaning of an entire agency - it's not a thing theses are routinely written about when discussing meaning.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@DrWatson I think the issue isn't that Trump is a Nazi and he probably has no idea or doesn't care that this is analogous to Nazi symbolism.
However, Trump has key people in his employ like Stephen Miller who will absolutely know what this stuff means.
He's the President. Someone could have told him if it's all coincidence.
However, Trump has key people in his employ like Stephen Miller who will absolutely know what this stuff means.
He's the President. Someone could have told him if it's all coincidence.
DrWatson · 70-79, M
@Graylight After reading your response, I found an image of the Great Seal, and I've been staring at all three images, examining the similarities and differences. My first impression of the Trump symbol was that it merely echoed the Great Seal and nothing more. But the more I look at those pictures, the more I am willing to modify my response to you. The eagle is facing one way in the Nazi emblem and in the opposite way in the Great Seal. The Trumpista eagle agrees with the Nazi eagle. Likewise with the angle of the wings -- horizontal in both the Nazi and and the Trump image, but not in the Great Seal. And then there is the circle at the bottom.
It occurs to me that the neo-Nazi movement in this country uses a lot of "dog whistles". It may very well be that the image on that t-shirt is one of those. It looks at first blush like a harmlessly patriotic American image.
By the way, please do not conflate my response with what you have read elsewhere written by others. I have never been one to minimize the use of a Swastika by appealing to its older usages (unless we are talking about its use by an indigenous people in the traditional way.) All I was saying was that images of the American Eagle are not, in and of themselves, references to Nazis.
It occurs to me that the neo-Nazi movement in this country uses a lot of "dog whistles". It may very well be that the image on that t-shirt is one of those. It looks at first blush like a harmlessly patriotic American image.
By the way, please do not conflate my response with what you have read elsewhere written by others. I have never been one to minimize the use of a Swastika by appealing to its older usages (unless we are talking about its use by an indigenous people in the traditional way.) All I was saying was that images of the American Eagle are not, in and of themselves, references to Nazis.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@DrWatson First, I don't mean to imply you specifically in anything here. I tend toy our the general 'you.' I don't think the eagle is the issue, again. I think it's the whole of the seal. To reiterate CountScrofula, a seal like this doesn't come about by coincidence. Someone at the WH knows precisely what the score is.