This is funny because most people have no clue of their history. I mean the chat here shows it vibrantly in that everyone says Abe was good and his statues shouldnt be removed. Contrary to the mass propaganda which tries to portray the civil war as a war for black people which if you read history is comical. Its these same people that claim Jesus was white and preach the good book even if they are illiterate. The civil war was not about black people. It was about land. The Monroe doctrine was not 20 years previous and most senators and such owned slaves. During the civil war the southern usa was owned by 12 families and they owned the land and the people regardless of color. The civil war was a war for land based on the Monroe Doctrine as seen by the jim crowe south after the civil war until MLK. I understand people dont want to remember the horrors of the Klan and the Confederacy and that is why they are toppling statues but I ask if the toppling of statues really changes anything. Does removing a Robert Lee statue make Virginia less racist? In current times we see the same pandering. I mean Harris is VP and the media goes nuts for the firsts that she marks... but she doesnt promote democracy or a response to gun violence or anything to common people. Its the same pandering and until the people really change the system it will continue.
It would depend on the statue imo. I'm sure some needed to come down. It might not change anything but at least slavery won't be celebrated anymore. But I'm sure some is an overreaction. It's true we can't change the past but who was it that inherited a slave. I mean seriously.🤔 @che154
@Spoiledbrat you believe that in 2022 slavery isnt celebrated in the USA? what planet have you been on? Im Canadian and its all over. Take a look at the military budget. $7T per decade about 2.7% goes to personnel. The people dying and risking everything make 2.7% more this year than last year but corporate inflation has prices at 7% so really they are making 5% less this year than last. But corporations are making 9% of that budget and they are sheltered from even bad air much less war. Last year $5T went to corporations and there is talk of more coming but common people got a $1400 check. The same system remains from the civil war where 12 families owned all of the wealth and the people to now 24 financial companies that own all the wealth and the people. You think slavery ended. The 13th amendment allowed the prison loophole and surprisingly the police came from the old slave patrols and we know the mass incarceration population and how the prison system is funded and the role of the 1990s crime bill that President Joe Chamberlain wrote which any sane person knows furthers modern slavery.
@Spoiledbrat its all connected and what happens at one end has huge implications on the other. If you want we could link the statues situation and racism to the economy and Americas view of slavery and the huge implications that has on war. Can you remember the last white people America fought in war? The germans 1941
@che154 Have you ever looked at the copies of the secession documents (posted by representatives of the Southern states who chose to secede from the United States prior to the Civil War) ?
They’re still available to review, in the original text of their authors. To a man, each gave their reason for becoming the Confederacy as a concern that Lincoln would abolish slavery, which was the basis of their economy. So you can make whatever excuses are comfortable, but the Civil War was about slavery, because that was the South’s economy and even non-slaveowners were benefiting from it.
When the southerners went to war, it was to uphold a way of life that was based upon owning other human beings—in a country that claimed then (and still claims) to be “the land of the FREE and the home of the brave").
@bijouxbroussard yes and read a peoples history of the usa by howard zinn. The southern states didn't just own blacks... poor white people were also owned. Again I said about how the division of power went from the richer plantations with the cotton gin to todays financial corporations which own the people and american tax payers are funding $5T in just the last 2 years ish. The collection of wealth shaped the society during the civil war and now and every year between. If you want we can even point to the ammendments to to constitution made after the civil war and how even after January 6 those ammendments arent being acted upon for the same reason. I guess some really believe the American propaganda model, it marveled Hitler.
PS if you argue that race really was the reason for the war, why were slaves not in the union army until August 1864 and Abe made no mention of emancipation until well after that.
@che154 My argument is the fact as it appears on our historical documents, by the people in positions of authority who chose to secede from the union. Their words. They didn’t want slavery to end. And if whites were “owned” in the same way as blacks, they would’ve needed the 13th Amendment to free them. They didn’t, because they were not slaves. Even indentured servants had rights.
@bijouxbroussard they didnt (indentured servants) sadly and thats why the New Deal wasnt as well received by all. Have you read Chomsky? While the south didnt want slavery to end, I showed that Abe didnt care until the last year and only when he needed it to help him win. Why do you think the 13 amendment frees slaves? even today when you read it the amendment openly says prison is the exception and sadly then and has continued until now with mass incarceration which is slavery. Even China doesnt have 2.5% of their population in jail. By 2010 there were more people incarcerated than enslaved in 1850.
@Spoiledbrat I agree with you and the reason they pulled out was because they wanted to hoard the riches of the cotton trade and not be taxed or share profits. Its the same reason todays financial corporations own the country and Biden did the bank deal to benefit the rich and fuck the bottom 95% of the population. Sorry for reality.
@che154 None of which changes the fact that the Civil War was largely about slavery, which was basis of the South’s economy. Therefore, the South fought for the right to continue owning other human beings. That’s basically the bottom line. And to those with the need to point out that the soldiers weren’t slaveowners—hopefully they realize we weren’t sending the sons of oil barons over to fight in the Middle East, either.
@bijouxbroussard gotta read above where I showed that while the South was fine with slavery the North didnt care until the end and only when it would help them not lose land. Interestingly you dont think the North had slaves? I told you about the New Deal and was trying to be polite about its racist elements which were not just southern appeal. The North was not anti slavery and if you read Harriet Tubman you see the battles werent just southern. That is if you dont read the American Disney version of history that is often taught and has about as much truth as Disney
@che154 Doesn’t change the fact again that the South was willing to both secede from the union and ultimately go to war over it. Bottom line. You can make all the excuses you want, nothing you’ve added refutes those basic facts.
@bijouxbroussard I was never trying to refute reality but in order to understand reality and how it impacts now. While you call it excuses in books and such they are called facts. I think anyone viewing the comments can see how far youve shifted.
@MarmeeMarch guess some havent heard of the Confederacy or the Daughters of Confederacy (reason for the statues) or Yellow Dog Dems or Nixons southern strategy or Regans drug plans and education policy ... even 14 year old socialist knows of such...
@che154 There is a lot of revisionism in reports nowadays, but speaking strictly about that leading up to the Civil War (the point I was originally addressing) I believe you said
Contrary to the mass propaganda which tries to portray the civil war as a war for black people which if you read history is comical.
While it wasn’t for black people, slavery and the prospect of Lincoln’s abolition of the same was what prompted the secession of Southern states, the establishment of the Confederacy and ultimately factored into the war. As for slaves vs. indentured servants, the latter had limits on their time of servitude—slaves did not.
Moreover, even free blacks could legally be captured and sold because they no legal rights, and it happened more often than you might think, once slavecatchers were given the right to seek fugitive slaves in Northern states.
